Holdover shooting

[JAYgs8163]

Dialing and holdover are equally effective as long as you have the proper equipment. Ie SFP vs FFP reticle and you practice a bunch and verify your load and data.

 

[memtb]

Fairly new to lrh. How far can i be successful with only holdover....non dialing scopes?
Thoughts?

My response is tailored toward hunting and not targets/steel!

It is dependent upon the velocities, BC's, and the zero range! We use a 300 yard zero on our hunting rifles, and easily "hold on hair" out to 400 yards on big game (deer and up). I'm certain the others using high BC bullets and higher velocities can easily stretch that a bit farther!

For hunting purposes, beyond 400 yards....we use the rangefinder and dial!

IMO, the only potential issue with our zero would be shooting small animals (fox, coyote, ect) at the peak of our trajectory (around 170ish yards). You just have to remember to hold a bit low for those shots! Most of the time a non-issue, but, I did manage to shoot over a Rockchuck with my 375 AI by not "thinking" The second shot corrected my mistake.....the Rockchuck was DRT! memtb

 

[del2les]

Fairly new to lrh. How far can i be successful with only holdover....non dialing scopes?
Thoughts?

A very long way...with practice. Mildot or BDC plex scopes can really help, but decades ago, I learned to use the multiplex wires at different power settings for judging holdover, and of course, the old mildot training for judging distance and holdover. Knowing the average body height of your game can give you a fair estimation of holdover also: 1/2 over, 1x, 2x etc.

Through the decades, I have taken numerous quick snap shots on game using a fast holdover, for not all encounters allow for laser ranging, dialing, etc. Or the game is over the hill, valley or bush.

Practice and you will be surprised what you can do.

 

[greenejc]

Fairly new to lrh. How far can i be successful with only holdover....non dialing scopes?
Thoughts?

What scope are you using and what type of reticle? Take a look at the FFP and Dual Reticle scopes at https://shepherdscopes.com/ and if they're in your budget you might find one that will allow both hold over with precision and dialing capability. I've found their hold over points to be precise for my rifles and loads. I use them for practice with hold over out to 800 and 900 yards depending on where I can shoot at distance. As to how far you can use hold over, it really depends on your skill and how much you have shot at distance. Distance in field conditions can be deceptive and things can be closer or farther than they look.

 

[Ninering62]

I've been shooting for 50 yrs & up until 2 yrs ago & used turret adj for range. I got a .45 muzzleloader &
I put a Vortex Viper gen2 FFP 5-25x50 MOA IR scope on it. I've done some tweaking to my gun & load to give me 600yd deer hunting range. I have a chrony & ran that data through a ballistics app & then spent some trigger time fine-tuning & verifying my ballistics chart. So I can now simply use my detent's in my scope to get me almost to my max effective hunting range without ever touching my turret. I'm zeroed @200yds. dn 3moa @100yds & up 9moa @400yds. Simple, practical, fast, very effective. I'd never had a chrony before 2 yrs ago nor had any ideas about ballistics apps. I wish I'd have had this understanding & ability a very long time ago. I'm sure lovin it now though.

 

[Ninering62]

What scope are you using and what type of reticle? Take a look at the FFP and Dual Reticle scopes at https://shepherdscopes.com/ and if they're in your budget you might find one that will allow both hold over with precision and dialing capability. I've found their hold over points to be precise for my rifles and loads. I use them for practice with hold over out to 800 and 900 yards depending on where I can shoot at distance. As to how far you can use hold over, it really depends on your skill and how much you have shot at distance. Distance in field conditions can be deceptive and things can be closer or farther than they look.

I rarely see anyone talking about or recommending Shepherd scopes. I got my first Shepherd scope around 25yrs ago. I've had 3 more since. They sure bring a lot to the table for their price range. **** nice glass & overall quality too.

 

[greenejc]

Here's an image of the Shepherd 3.5 to 15 power DRS scope reticle for the 30-06 family showing ballistic hold over and range finding reticle H2. The H1 would probably match your 280 AI. This reticle gives you aim points for hold over and range finding capability out to 1,000 yards, with hold over points out past 1300 yards, with the capability of dial in windage using the horizontal line at the top. This is a dual reticle scope, with the cross hairs in the back plane and the ranging stadia in the front plane. Hold over can be very precise past 800 yards, and with practice, out to 1,000 yards. They make a reticle for the 300 win mag, the Ultra Mags and pretty much everything else. It lets you use hold over or dial in exact bullet drop at distance if you have time and the range.

 

[Ninering62]

Here's an image of the Shepherd 3.5 to 15 power DRS scope reticle for the 30-06 family showing ballistic hold over and range finding reticle H2. The H1 would probably match your 280 AI. This reticle gives you aim points for hold over and range finding capability out to 1,000 yards, with hold over points out past 1300 yards, with the capability of dial in windage using the horizontal line at the top. This is a dual reticle scope, with the cross hairs in the back plane and the ranging stadia in the front plane. Hold over can be very precise past 800 yards, and with practice, out to 1,000 yards. They make a reticle for the 300 win mag, the Ultra Mags and pretty much everything else. It lets you use hold over or dial in exact bullet drop at distance if you have time and the range. View attachment 320455

They are great scopes. I had one on my 7mm mag & 300win mag. Had the one I wanted been in stock, or in stock any time soon, I'd have another one on the gun I set up last instead of the Vortex I ended up with.

 

[greenejc]

I rarely see anyone talking about or recommending Shepherd scopes. I got my first Shepherd scope around 25yrs ago. I've had 3 more since. They sure bring a lot to the table for their price range. **** nice glass & overall quality too.

I have 5 of the 3.5 to 10 power Shepherds mounted on two 30-06's, two 35 Whelens and one 300 Win Mag. The other 300 Win Mag has a 6 to 18 power Shepherd on it. The newer shepherd hunting scopes range in power from a bottom of 3.5 and top of 15 power to a 6 by 24 power and they also have some new FFP scopes (single reticle) with the same range finding and hold over reticles which are less expensive but allow for very precise hold over at any power.

 

[vancewalker007]

Fairly new to lrh. How far can i be successful with only holdover....non dialing scopes?
Thoughts?

Of course the basic is depends a lot on your ability and your gear. But, lets assume your rifle is accurate enough, your range finding (elevation) solution is accurate enough, wind call solution is accurate enough, and your reticle is in a fine enough hash-marked scale that matches your elevation and wind call solution units then sky's the limit. Using my setup I could hold on my MOA reticle easily out to 1000 yards. Assuming this is what your talking about. If you're talking Kentucky windage on a bare reticle then I'd say for any critter's sake figure out what your Max Point Blank Range (MPBR) is and stay inside that.

 

[greenejc]

They are great scopes. I had one on my 7mm mag & 300win mag. Had the one I wanted been in stock, or in stock any time soon, I'd have another one on the gun I set up last instead of the Vortex I ended up with.

I'd like to be able to upgrade to their newest 3.5 X 15 power, which would give me more precision at distance, while still allowing the low power for close or rapid snap shots while 'busting brush'. That's why most of the rifles I have them mounted on have the 3.5 X 10 power scopes. I can be adequately precise with the 10 power setting out to around 800 yards or beyond (I've shot all these rifles to 1,000 yards for practice) but still have a low enough power to see the whole animal at 30 yards if I happen to jump one while moving through brush. I've lost animals in the scope due to too high a power setting on occasion when they were easy shots if I'd had a lower power dialed in. 6 power is too high for me for close running shots, but 3.5 to 4 power is about perfect. Also, I can range at any power through the reticle, and dial in windage which is confirmed by the scale at the top of the scope. No guess work. I bought my first Shepherd in Hawaii while stationed at Schofield Barracks, and mounted it on an HK 91. I still have it and the HK. I've been using them for 35 years, and I think they're the most versatile hunting/long range scope on the market, especially if you reload. You should take a look at the new 3.5 X 15 power scope. Their new BRS series is also pretty neat. Same glass, front focal plane reticle, side focus parallax, great glass (the glass is made by Salvo, which makes the glass for all the military aiming devices and a lot of the high dollar scope companies here in the U.S. under contract) and a number of ranging and bullet drop reticles which match pretty much everything being shot that's high-power. They even have a 22 long rifle reticle that allows shots out to 400 yards. I would have to win the lottery to buy enough to replace the old ones, though. I would if I could, but for now, I have to live with what I have, which is pretty good.

 

[Lenny Foffa]

They made me a program at the Bang Steel Shooting School. I was very surprised. They had a box on the printout called PBR (Point Blank Range. ) My 270 Weatherby Mag, shooting a 150 Grn. Accubond LR Bullet, with a G1 BC of 591 at 3000 fps , at 2800 feet in elevation has a PBR of 370 Yards. Thats a 12 inch square . In theory,( which I do not ever expect to test) I could be anywhere from 6 inches High at very close range, to 6 inches low at 370 yards. It seems completely unlikely to me, but it was in the ballistic program. What is clear is that all our rifles have some PBR , that allows us to place a shot at game, within a reasonable distance, before having to adjust the elevation dial. Could be 150 yards for some calibers , could be 250 yards for other calibers. All the usual variables depending, of course. It would be really nice to know what it is. For me and this load, at 300 yards has a 3.2 MOA drop, and would require a 3.2 MOA adjustment. If it was a big mule deer and it still I would adjust the turret, however if it was moving slow as I aimed, I would take the shot with some hold over, off my Bog Pod Tripod , If there were no time to adjust the turret. Interesting topic and Thread!!!

 

[Hinterlandr]

With a standard duplex crosshair, we used to sight in @200yds then for holdover @ 440 we used the tip of the post. We would continue to back down on the magnification until the tip of the post represents a sighted point for said yardage. That way, anything 440yds and under we knew was between the intersection of the crosshairs, and the tip of the bottom post. We were quite successful in this crude method.

Interesting method!

 

[Hinterlandr]

I'd like to be able to upgrade to their newest 3.5 X 15 power, which would give me more precision at distance, while still allowing the low power for close or rapid snap shots while 'busting brush'. That's why most of the rifles I have them mounted on have the 3.5 X 10 power scopes. I can be adequately precise with the 10 power setting out to around 800 yards or beyond (I've shot all these rifles to 1,000 yards for practice) but still have a low enough power to see the whole animal at 30 yards if I happen to jump one while moving through brush. I've lost animals in the scope due to too high a power setting on occasion when they were easy shots if I'd had a lower power dialed in. 6 power is too high for me for close running shots, but 3.5 to 4 power is about perfect. Also, I can range at any power through the reticle, and dial in windage which is confirmed by the scale at the top of the scope. No guess work. I bought my first Shepherd in Hawaii while stationed at Schofield Barracks, and mounted it on an HK 91. I still have it and the HK. I've been using them for 35 years, and I think they're the most versatile hunting/long range scope on the market, especially if you reload. You should take a look at the new 3.5 X 15 power scope. Their new BRS series is also pretty neat. Same glass, front focal plane reticle, side focus parallax, great glass (the glass is made by Salvo, which makes the glass for all the military aiming devices and a lot of the high dollar scope companies here in the U.S. under contract) and a number of ranging and bullet drop reticles which match pretty much everything being shot that's high-power. They even have a 22 long rifle reticle that allows shots out to 400 yards. I would have to win the lottery to buy enough to replace the old ones, though. I would if I could, but for now, I have to live with what I have, which is pretty good.

Thanks for the great info. I will look at the 3.5 X 15