Henson Aluminum Tipped Bullet Testing

[BryanLitz]

.....

 

[Lightvarmint]

Another view angle:

Bryan,

Good work.

BTW, you might want to take a closer look at the tip as the model does not replicate the actual tips.

I don't know if you realize it or not, but you did choose all the colors of a bumble bee for the model...... Is this a fore shadowing of expectations?


James

 

[AJ Peacock]

Bryan,

Good work.

BTW, you might want to take a closer look at the tip as the model does not replicate the actual tips.

I don't know if you realize it or not, but you did choose all the colors of a bumble bee for the model...... Is this a fore shadowing of expectations?


James

James,

I wish you would just let the bullets speak for themselves. Your negative expectations from everyone that has commented on this thread really turns my stomach. At first, I thought I might get some of these bullets and do some testing in my Edge and my Allen Mag. But I've decided it isn't worth my time or barrel life.

James, your inference that Bryan wouldn't let the findings speak for themselves is very poor form indeed. As far as trust, I've never met Bryan, but have read nearly everything he has posted on this site. Every post he's made has seemed fair and technically correct (to the best of my ability to judge).

Bryan, I look forward to your most excellent investigation of these bullets. I am sure I will learn a lot from anything you determine about their performance (real world and simulation).

Once the big 338 Bergers are available, I intend to spend a bit of my Allen Mag's barrel life in the investigation of their performance vs the 300SMK's I've been shooting over the last 3 years.

AJ

ps: James, if you are able to find some hidden meaning in the above message, rest assured that it is 100% accidental, as I don't have time to spend on such meaningless and trivial things. Or maybe I do???

 

[BryanLitz]

.....

 

[noel carlson]

James,

The simulation which Bryan is setting up is a reasonable approximation of your bullet shape. The primary objective is to determine if the aft CG shift could be responsible for a hypothesized "lift" increase, not a precise aerodynamic efficiency modeling prediction.

This will be valuable information to anyone wanting to buy your bullets, and you should see it as such. It would be foolish of him to skew, of falsify results... these types of things are independently verifiable, and a hit like that to his reputation is simply not worth it. If anything, he will be overly careful in making favorable allowance for the performance of your projectile.

Just a heads up... your bullet's actual BC will be lower than early testing has indicated. It is not the product of a conspiracy.

Best,
Noel Carlson

 

[Lightvarmint]

Tell me James,

Precisely how are the tips not 'representative' in the model?

My camera isn't good enough to capture the details in clarity, but I did use Starrett calipers to measure the dimensions of the tips so I'm pretty sure the model is quite representative.

I chose the colors of copper, lead, and as close as I could get to aluminum.

You're casting doubt on my work already and I haven't even presented any results yet. Is this some foreshadowing of your own?

Bryan,

I am not casting doubt on your work, I was making a joke about the bumble bee to keep the subject as light-earted as possible..

Your work will speak for itself I guess. But you do understand that you are employed by a competing company and every post you make is an advertisement for them since you have a sponsor ID under your name. Additionally, your signature line indicates Berger bullets as well. If "Bryan Litz" posted without the sponsorship ID and the Berger signature line, that would make more sense to me when one is attempting to appear impartial and to post impartial evaluations of another companies products....

As long as you can step back from your Berger duties and responsibilities and provide a representative evaluation without being influenced by your paycheck and career at Berger Bullets, then all should be fine.....

Bear in mind all results could be checked and rechecked by other sources and laboratories.

I can't wait to hear the results because we have some 280 and 300 grain trajectory test results to post shortly. We will wait until after you get done to post these results.

With respect to the bullet tip, if you look closely at the tip shank, you will notice some rings that will displace lead. Those are specifically not accounted for in the drawing and they will affect the balance of the bullets. The displacement of lead by aluminum or vice versa will affect the balance and could influence your results working with your hypothesis and or formulae.

If you had corresponded with me as you advertised, then I could have pointed the tip shank details out to you one on one vice here on the thread.

Additionally, you should have asked RG to send you some tips for measuring dimensions prior to the bullet being pointed up. I am sure he would have sent you some. Unfortunately sometimes, when we pull bullets apart, it does somewhat distort the tip, tip shanks and other dimensions.

I just figured you would want all the details.... After all why post the photos and drawings without the data if you are not seeking opinion and comment?

James

 

[GREYGHOSTt]

James,

I wish you would just let the bullets speak for themselves. Your negative expectations from everyone that has commented on this thread really turns my stomach. At first, I thought I might get some of these bullets and do some testing in my Edge and my Allen Mag. But I've decided it isn't worth my time or barrel life.


THEY HAVE BEEN FOR OVER SIX MONTHS...
BUT ONLY IN ENGLISH!

 

[Lightvarmint]

James,

The simulation which Bryan is setting up is a reasonable approximation of your bullet shape. The primary objective is to determine if the aft CG shift could be responsible for a hypothesized "lift" increase, not a precise aerodynamic efficiency modeling prediction.

This will be valuable information to anyone wanting to buy your bullets, and you should see it as such. It would be foolish of him to skew, of falsify results... these types of things are independently verifiable, and a hit like that to his reputation is simply not worth it. If anything, he will be overly careful in making favorable allowance for the performance of your projectile.

Just a heads up... your bullet's actual BC will be lower than early testing has indicated. It is not the product of a conspiracy.

Best,
Noel Carlson

Noel,

Thanks for the input. We have not advertised a Gen II BC whatsoever. All we have advertised is the trajectory data and the number we use. We have advised over and over again that folks have to try them in their guns to get their data. However, as we have already posted these 265s are the lowest BC .338s in the bullet line.

The intial generation of these bullets in 280 had a very solid instrumentally proven .878 G1 BC but their profiles left something to be desired and they are not manufactured anymore.

With the newer design, we are very confident that they upcoming trajectory tests will yield a much higher value.

Thanks for your interest.

James

 

[noel carlson]

James,

I was under the impression that these bullets were being supplied by a third party because you were unable to send exemplars, for whatever reason.

Take this for what it is worth, but the problems you are experiencing in this thread are a consequence of inadequate pre-market evaluation. I understand the economic considerations, and empathize with the burden it places on a start-up company... I am in the same situation. But this degree of scrutiny is just in the nature of the beast.

Under the circumstances, I think you should look at this as a gift.

Bryan is very unlikely to give the projectile an unfair shake.

 

[Lightvarmint]

James,

I wish you would just let the bullets speak for themselves. Your negative expectations from everyone that has commented on this thread really turns my stomach. At first, I thought I might get some of these bullets and do some testing in my Edge and my Allen Mag. But I've decided it isn't worth my time or barrel life.

James, your inference that Bryan wouldn't let the findings speak for themselves is very poor form indeed. As far as trust, I've never met Bryan, but have read nearly everything he has posted on this site. Every post he's made has seemed fair and technically correct (to the best of my ability to judge).

Bryan, I look forward to your most excellent investigation of these bullets. I am sure I will learn a lot from anything you determine about their performance (real world and simulation).

Once the big 338 Bergers are available, I intend to spend a bit of my Allen Mag's barrel life in the investigation of their performance vs the 300SMK's I've been shooting over the last 3 years.

AJ

ps: James, if you are able to find some hidden meaning in the above message, rest assured that it is 100% accidental, as I don't have time to spend on such meaningless and trivial things. Or maybe I do???

AJ,

They (bullets) have spoken loud and clear.

I do not have negative expectations...

As far as you making selections for consuming products, that is your perogative but if you did not see the humor in my bumble bee comment, then you probably have your belt too tight and it is constricting blood flow and that is probably what is turning your stomach......

Nothing is absolute in this business and that includes both products and evaluations........ Everything is reviewable by other sources......

I think that this is all very interesting..... Specifially, the only ballistic experts that have commented are the ones that either own another company or are employed by another company.....

FWIW, we have had some other bullet manufacturers that were not involved in competing products show immense interest and will be using these when their shooting needs require lead core bullets.

Some have even ordered samples to test for future loaded ammo products for availablity at a dealer near you.

James

 

[Lightvarmint]

James,

I was under the impression that these bullets were being supplied by a third party because you were unable to send exemplars, for whatever reason.

Take this for what it is worth, but the problems you are experiencing in this thread are a consequence of inadequate pre-market evaluation. I understand the economic considerations, and empathize with the burden it places on a start-up company... I am in the same situation. But this degree of scrutiny is just in the nature of the beast.

Under the circumstances, I think you should look at this as a gift.

Bryan is very unlikely to give the projectile an unfair shake.

Noel,

Bryan ordered some and since some were offered by another shooter prior to his current order being filled he decided to proceed with bullets that were made last year vice waiting for the current production examples.

I expect no less out of a scientific professional than to be honest and without influence.

James

 

[Lightvarmint]

James,

I was under the impression that these bullets were being supplied by a third party because you were unable to send exemplars, for whatever reason.

Take this for what it is worth, but the problems you are experiencing in this thread are a consequence of inadequate pre-market evaluation. I understand the economic considerations, and empathize with the burden it places on a start-up company... I am in the same situation. But this degree of scrutiny is just in the nature of the beast.

Under the circumstances, I think you should look at this as a gift.

Bryan is very unlikely to give the projectile an unfair shake.

Deleted due to duplicate posting.

 

[noel carlson]

"I think that this is all very interesting ..... specifically the only ballistics experts that have commented are the ones that either own another company, or are employed by another company....."... I actually think this is actually all very predictable.

We are competing for a similar consumer market niche, and any publicized competitive advantage will be quickly identified, and swiftly discounted if not credible, or emulated in the event a given modification is not legally protected.

For example, your two upcoming heavyweights have already been pre-empted, and you will not become aware of it until published claims run smack into field data.

But this is your thread, so I will not hijack it with competing information. My point is this, the time for speculation is prior to release of a product, not after.

 

[noel carlson]

P.S.,

Even scientific professionals are adversly influenced on occasion... that is why forums, such as this, are valuable.

Best,
Noel Carlson