Henson Aluminum Tipped Bullet Testing

[Lightvarmint]

I also said I would settle for double cronies. Is that out of the question too? I am pretty sure most traditional manufacturers use at least this method. In fact I know some that do. Maybe it was my bad for assuming that if you could afford a lockeed engineer to develop the most soffisticated bullet to date, that maybe you could afford to test them with the most soffisticated methods. Youre right, doppler is expensive and I dont know any manufactures that use this method with any regularity. However, your product doesnt cost what others do either. Again, I will still settle for double chronies. Just something more than the drop tests youre feeding us. Is that too much to ask or is it easier to assume? Surely a man in your position has access to an Oehler 43 or at the least 2 chronographs.

Well.....The ball is in your court. I am just trying to help you sell bullets by explaining to you what a consumer is seeing. If you have a handfull of customers and that is all you want, then I will shut up. If you would like a few more than you should put yourself in our shoes first.

Again, just constructive criticizm here.

ME,

Your interest in double cronies has already been addressed above. Like we said, Dr Oehler recommended not to use the double cronies or double Oehler chronographs with these streamlined bullets (Gen II). We had them and they were all over the place with the Gen IIs. We can use them with the Gen I, but the Gen IIs as I have already posted tend to "sneak" through the electronic eyes and give erroneous results at longer ranges.

Dr Ken said that doppler radar, acoustic targets and drop charts were the only way to get some data and that is what we did..... Exactly per Dr Ken Oehler. He said that the most important element for the hunter was target impacts and that is what we chose to do.

And, that is how we got to both the long and interemediate yardage testing per Dr Oehler's recommendation. Nothing more or less.

Additionally, I did not say the bullet was designed by a Lockeed engineer, I said the tip was.


James

 

[Michael Eichele]

As far as the data you request, please send me a link to the websites for Hornady, Sierra, Speer, Wildacat, Berger, Saubier, Lapua, Carterucci, Bart Sauter, Lazzeroni and any other company that offers published doppler radar results of their projectiles. I am anxiously wanting to read the data.

exterior ballistics

 

[jwp475]

Brain's test will tell the tale and settle this once and for all

 

[Michael Eichele]

Additionally, I did not say the bullet was designed by a Lockeed engineer, I said the tip was.

James

If you can have a Lockeed Aeronautical Engineer design your bullet tips,

Yeah, I know. Thats what I said.

 

[Michael Eichele]

ME,

Your interest in double cronies has already been addressed above. Like we said, Dr Oehler recommended not to use the double cronies or double Oehler chronographs with these streamlined bullets (Gen II). We had them and they were all over the place with the Gen IIs. We can use them with the Gen I, but the Gen IIs as I have already posted tend to "sneak" through the electronic eyes and give erroneous results at longer ranges.

Dr Ken said that doppler radar, acoustic targets and drop charts were the only way to get some data and that is what we did..... Exactly per Dr Ken Oehler. He said that the most important element for the hunter was target impacts and that is what we chose to do.

And, that is how we got to both the long and interemediate yardage testing per Dr Oehler's recommendation. Nothing more or less.



James

I know. But this isnt the problem. How are you going to determine wind drift, energy and impact velocity by doing a drop test? You still need downrange velocities AND time of flight results to determine factors OTHER that just drop. I use a range finder, how much a bullet drops means nothing to me aside from where to put the reticle. Impact velocities do.

Granted, you may be right but without sufficient tests and experiments your arguments are just smoke. All I am asking for is an alternative method to prove impact velocities wind drift etc....Drop tests alone will not do this. All a drop test can do is give you a percived BC for use in software to calculate accurate drop table and little else. I try and test drops against two chronies for impact velocity facts. I need to know this so I know when it is too far to shoot game. Every body else here should be doing the same. Especially a bullet smith.

 

[Michael Eichele]

Brain's test will tell the tale and settle this once and for all

Yup.

LightVarmint, if this tale settles in the way we all hope it will, I will be the first in line to congradulate you and I will try your product. Until then the only thing ANY of us can do is speculate.

Cheers!

 

[Lightvarmint]

Yup.

LightVarmint, if this tale settles in the way we all hope it will, I will be the first in line to congradulate you and I will try your product. Until then the only thing ANY of us can do is speculate.

Cheers!

What you guys are not getting yet (and may not ever get it) is that even if it does have lift, the BCs for wind drift are still going to surpass anything else out there. Heck, the GIs do that already and they are weak in the BC department just like the new Bergers and SMKs.

As far as settling anything JWP, the results are in and they are what they are and you cannot change them no matter how you spin it.... I really don't think it will pertain to you one way or another..... I doubt you will ever have the opportunity to try them out.

When the bullet hits the target board that is where theory meets reality..... When it hits the animal, that is where preparation meet reality. We (the folks that get them) can only use them to our advantage..... These projectiles will become valuable just like primers are today......

For me, I would gladly have a bullet that had a tragectory BC of 1.1 and a drift BC of .9 vice just having one at .9 straight across the board....

But then again some of us can deal with the math better than others......

James

 

[Michael Eichele]

What does a drop board have to do with impact velocity?

And you claim that I may never "get" it.

Here we are. The consumers telling you, the manufacturer, what our needs our and why we have those needs and all you do is attack us.

Youre right, I may never be able to try your product. Its sad because its not the product that is the problem.

My only mistake here was engaging in this dither. One that I regret.

Good day.

 

[Lightvarmint]

What does a drop board have to do with impact velocity?

And you claim that I may never "get" it.

Here we are. The consumers telling you, the manufacturer, what our needs our and why we have those needs and all you do is attack us.

Youre right, I may never be able to try your product. Its sad because its not the product that is the problem.

My only mistake here was engaging in this dither. One that I regret.

Good day.

What you guys are failing to remember is that we cannot put out bum dope. Henson bullets is the only bullet company that offers money back guarantees. If you get some and they are not as respresented, you get your money back.

Lets review this....

--GS customs can inflate their BCs and sell bullets under false pretences and not provide refunds once they get caught and confronted. I still have eight boxes of these and cannot get a refund.

--Berger bullets had false BCs advertised and sold a substantial number of them and did not offer refunds to customers for selling them under false pretences. I still have 4000 of them that have lower BCs than advertised....

--Lost river bullets had major problems due to thier bullets not properly expanding due to annealing issues..... They did not offer refunds for bullets sold under false pretences. I still have 20 boxes of these and cannot get a refund.....

--With the above history of the custom bullet business, RG Henson is very skeptical about putting out values for BC and I imagine that is why Wildcat bullets did not offer BC information.... He wants to ensure that any value that is advertised is achievable by the end user....

Just like Wildcat bullets, you have to find out on your own..... And if they do not work for you when you follow the loading directions, then you get a refund.

That seems like a safe experiment to me.

If you don't understand that you can contact the bulletsmith at [email protected] and he may be able to better explain it to you.


James

 

[Michael Eichele]

Henson bullets is the only bullet company that offers money back guarantees. If you get some and they are not as respresented, you get your money back.


Just like Wildcat bullets, you have to find out on your own..... And if they do not work for you when you follow the loading directions, then you get a refund.

That seems like a safe experiment to me.


James

Now that I did not know. Since you put it that way, that opens up alot more.

Thank you!

 

[Lightvarmint]

Now that I did not know. Since you put it that way, that opens up alot more.

Thank you!

ME,

We have had guys try them in barrels that were the incorrect twist and they got their money back....

We even had guys totally ignore the printed directions on the reverse of the invoice that outlines in specific detail how to be successful with them.... These guys were offered their money back but were more interested in whining and belly-aching and they kept them....

It really made us wonder if they were being dishonest and they were working correctly all the time. I mean if you offer a refund and someone does not accept it, then either something is grossy wrong with the decision making process or they were as described.

The guys that seem to have the easiest time are the ones that follow the directions precisely. A lot of them are new shooters.....

There is a little more to load development than cramming into the lands and pulling the trigger..... We have found that they shoot the best -.030" to -.060" off the lands. This really helps out the magazine shooters since they can usually load them to fit into the magazine well.

Finally, they tune fairly easily. But the guys that get them have got to follow the directions.

James

 

[Michael Eichele]

That is fair enough.

Speaking of improper twists, have you tried the 30 cal 180 in a 11 or 11.25x? If so, how do you rate the combo. I have had very good success with the 220 SMK in the 11 and 11.25. I am assuming the 180 would handle similar.

 

[jwp475]

As far as settling anything JWP, the results are in and they are what they are and you cannot change them no matter how you spin it.... I really don't think it will pertain to you one way or another..... I doubt you will ever have the opportunity to try them out.


But then again some of us can deal with the math better than others......

James

No the results are not in and that is the point. As to me getting the opportunity to try them, you do mean buy them don't you?

 

[Lightvarmint]

That is fair enough.

Speaking of improper twists, have you tried the 30 cal 180 in a 11 or 11.25x? If so, how do you rate the combo. I have had very good success with the 220 SMK in the 11 and 11.25. I am assuming the 180 would handle similar.

ME,

Yes we did try them in the 11" twist. RG shot them out of one of his match rifles and they did not stabilize.... I apologize for the error. I forgot we let him shoot one day.

We gave him the benefit of the doubt and refunded the money.... We do not have any as all of our .30s are either 10" or 8" twists.

It is because of the length versus the weight..... We have shot them in .308 specialty pistols with 10" twists and have had good success and accuracy. But, for a given length, as the weight is reduced the twist requrements increase according to the Don Miller formula.

I have killed 3 deer with the 180s last year and it looked like someone had used a saw bit for a door knob hole on the off side. Just drilled straight through and left good trauma and exit wounds..... Perfect for blood trailing them 6' in the dark. She ran in circles slinging blood all over the place.

If you are a .30 caliber guy, you will really like them. That is providing you have the barrel twist for it.

Send me your email address and I will send you a picture of the very first group fired with the 180 HATS out of a Wichita .308 Silhouette pistol with two brakes (ie., Magnaport and Darrel Holland). It was the easiest load development I have ever seen.

James