(HAT) Henson Aluminum Tipped Bullet 338 Rum Test

[MontanaRifleman]

Paul,

We've had a good relationship in these forums and it distresses me to see it strained. I have not taken any pleasure in any of this but I have expressed my opinion that if someone makes tall claims they would be responsible to back those claims up with independant verification. Please read this carefully... this is not a mandate, demand or censorship. It is my opinion that I believe is shared by others and I dont think it is at all unreasonable. What Mr Henderson does is of course his prerogative.

I agree with others that this thread has gone far enough so I'm done with the debate. You have the the final word if you want it. If you want to discuss it a greater length, I would suggest PM or email.

It may sound like I'm doing an about face by being willing to try the .308 180's but Mr Henson's 100% guarantee I think is fair. Also, I'm not looking for .9 BC in those bullets. If they could give me the equivilent averge performance of .7 BC or better they would be worth the greater $$$ cost over the E-Tips or Bergers I am currently using.

I think I'll wait until I hear more about Noel's bullets before I take the plunge, but last I heard they will probably require a 9 twist or tighter.

In any case, it looks like Mr Henderson will get his day in the field, both with Noel Carlson and with a number of members which I've already said is great by me. I am very interested in hearing the results.

Regards,

Mark

 

[groper]

well one things for sure... if it was lightvarmint or anyone else with a vested interest in marketing HATS deliberate intent, you all sure played into their hands and helped them by keeping this thread at the top of the list and therefore increasing their exposure... lightbulb

 

[Jon A]

Paul,

Most reasonable people feel false advertising is a lousy thing. It might surprise you to know, if done to a large enough extent there are even laws against it--not that this rises to that level of course but as an example to you that society generally frowns upon the practice. You seem to be the exception.

Why you feel the need to first deny it happened, then defend it as OK, then attack people here as if we have done something wrong is beyond explanation.

I hope you enjoy the bullets. Nobody cares how much you love them. If you claim they have a BC of .9, then you should expect people to question you. We can call you "LV2."

 

[MontanaRifleman]

Jon, you said you've shot quite a few of these HATs. Have you tried any of the newer genration .308 180's? If so, do you think they showed a .7 BC performance or better? It would be nice to know before committing $$$, time and effort.

Thanks,

Mark

 

[noel carlson]

Mark,

The current hunt ZA338 has a plastic densified tungsten core, instead of bonded tin/bismuth. This brings it's weight up to 300 grains, and increases gyroscopic stability.

It is compatible in a 10" twist barrel, and maintains the form factor of the earlier versions. The ZA30 will also be stable from conventional twists at 200+ grains.

Mr. Henson,

Would you like to run the 30 calibers through the instruments also?

Best,
Noel

 

[GREYGHOSTt]

Mark,

The current hunt ZA338 has a plastic densified tungsten core, instead of bonded tin/bismuth. This brings it's weight up to 300 grains, and increases gyroscopic stability.

It is compatible in a 10" twist barrel, and maintains the form factor of the earlier versions. The ZA30 will also be stable from conventional twists at 200+ grains.

Mr. Henson,

Would you like to run the 30 calibers through the instruments also?

Best,
Noel

Sure not a problem we are going be there any way it's not like a extra trip to get it done...
rg,,,

 

[Jon A]

Jon, you said you've shot quite a few of these HATs. Have you tried any of the newer genration .308 180's? If so, do you think they showed a .7 BC performance or better? It would be nice to know before committing $$$, time and effort.

I bought a bunch of 210's but have only shot a few. My barrel didn't like them, it's possible it was a twist issue. I'll see how they do with the new barrel. Hopefully they'll be accurate enough I can shoot over the chronographs with them.

 

[MontanaRifleman]

Mark,

The current hunt ZA338 has a plastic densified tungsten core, instead of bonded tin/bismuth. This brings it's weight up to 300 grains, and increases gyroscopic stability.

It is compatible in a 10" twist barrel, and maintains the form factor of the earlier versions. The ZA30 will also be stable from conventional twists at 200+ grains.

Mr. Henson,

Would you like to run the 30 calibers through the instruments also?

Best,
Noel

Interesting Noel, do you have a projected BC for these bullets? (careful, you're stepping into the lions den) Do you have any data or pictures of them and are they available yet? And are you still pursuing the monometals? I'm hoping to get some custum rebarrels done in the not too distant future and planning on 8 or 9 twists.

Thanks,

Mark

 

[MontanaRifleman]

I bought a bunch of 210's but have only shot a few. My barrel didn't like them, it's possible it was a twist issue. I'll see how they do with the new barrel. Hopefully they'll be accurate enough I can shoot over the chronographs with them.

Thanks Jon, maybe you can go be the RSO for Noel and Greyghost

 

[noel carlson]

Mark,

I have a fairly good idea of the BC values for these projectiles, but I will wait for independent verification before publication... I am sure you can understand why.

Yes, the monometal bullets will be offered right along with the PDT core projectiles. If you are willing to mount a barrel with the required rifling geometry, the cost savings will more than justify the investment. Both can be fired from the same barrel. I just decided that it would be a very long time before, even dedicated, shooters would appreciate the advantages of the 6.0+ caliber solids, and magazine dimensions are problematic.

 

[noel carlson]

P.S.;

Some recent construction details prevent me from posting photographs at present, however; the overall form is very similar to the photos shown in the thread started by Eric Stecker.

 

[MontanaRifleman]

Mark,

I have a fairly good idea of the BC values for these projectiles, but I will wait for independent verification before publication... I am sure you can understand why.

Yes, the monometal bullets will be offered right along with the PDT core projectiles. If you are willing to mount a barrel with the required rifling geometry, the cost savings will more than justify the investment. Both can be fired from the same barrel. I just decided that it would be a very long time before, even dedicated, shooters would appreciate the advantages of the 6.0+ caliber solids, and magazine dimensions are problematic.

Thanks Noel, I 'll be patiently waiting in an impatient sorta way. Keep us posted

 

[edge]

Personally this BC thing seems to be a ****ing contest! Unless someone is shooting doppler radar the numbers will always be suspect! Barometric pressure isn't constant and neither is temperature.

Now there are others that can devise a better plan than I, but IMO, to calculate drops NOTHING should change!

IMO, the shooter should have a reasonable zero, LV used 400 yards.
The shooter should not adjust the scope as that WILL induce error!
Shoot a 100 yard target, and as many intermediate targets as he is inclined to shoot out to the maximum distance available.
Targets should be interchanged long /short, short/long thereby showing any changes in conditions...and followed by a shot at the zero distance. EG: 100 / 1000, 900 / 200, 300 / 800 etc.

IMO, unless someone sets out to deceive their audience, the drops will give a good 3d picture of the trajectory.

This is a test that anyone could or should be able to reproduce. Obviously a charlatan could just adjust the point of aim to make any drop work, but if 2 or 3 other shooters could not reproduce the results then the hoax should be unveiled quickly! Anyone with Excel can use the drops to show where his/her bullet should land based on those numbers!

edge.

 

[noel carlson]

Edge,

The system to be used for this evaluation is soon to be released by SAAB, and will be administered by one of their represenatives.

There will be no smoke, and mirrors.

Best,
Noel