Help Needed for Infrared Rifle Scope

I guess that I was using the .338 WM as a threshold value in an attempt to get a more robust scope.

In reality, it will likely be used on a pretty heavy 6.5-284!

I always tend to lean toward more over less! šŸ˜‰ memtb

This only works if you understand the parameters of what you are discussing, and when you don't, you cross thresholds unbeknownst to you and you end up unsolvable issues or a bad result.

The smart direction to go would be to first find what fits your needs and to build out from there instead of creating hypothetical parameters and figuring out which results will fit your real life situation.

So 6.8-284 and you have a $3k budget.
What is your typical intended game?
What is your typical shot distance?
What is your maximum shot distance?
In what type of terrain do you typically hunt?
Are you typically hunting from a blind? Stalking? What?
Do you have weight restrictions?
Do you have a spotting scope or are you just planning on waving around your rifle and trying to see things?
 
This only works if you understand the parameters of what you are discussing, and when you don't, you cross thresholds unbeknownst to you and you end up unsolvable issues or a bad result.

The smart direction to go would be to first find what fits your needs and to build out from there instead of creating hypothetical parameters and figuring out which results will fit your real life situation.

So 6.8-284 and you have a $3k budget.
What is your typical intended game?
What is your typical shot distance?
What is your maximum shot distance?
In what type of terrain do you typically hunt?
Are you typically hunting from a blind? Stalking? What?
Do you have weight restrictions?
Do you have a spotting scope or are you just planning on waving around your rifle and trying to see things?
In an attempt to "not" give too much infoā€¦.this is the best that I can offer!

This is for home/location defenseā€¦..after "IT" happens! Just part of prepping for the near inevitable! Budget restrictions limit many possibilities!

Not likely to be used for a lot of hunting! The goal is to see/shoot to an effective range, while minimizing exposure!

Perhaps a better worded question might beā€¦ā€¦what is the realistic distance that I can get a good heat signature and make an accurate shot on a 150 to 200 pound hog?

Thanks for attempting to answer my question! I thought that hunters using this type of equipment may be the best source of valid information! memtb
 
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I use the AGM Adder TS 50 - 384. I can identify deer out to 800 yards easily. Have made kills out to 425 yards with 6.5 Grendel and 308 ARs easily as long as I have the range. It would work fine on my 6.5-06 as this rifle weighs almost 14 pounds and soaks up recoil. Battery life is around 13 hours. I prefer using the Grendel with it as I get better video and can remain on target better with Grendel level recoil. The only issue is that it says it will only withstand 308 level recoil. The Adder line looks more like a traditional rifle scope which I prefer.
If you are looking for a scope that will handle higher recoil and also give you long ID distances take a look at Pulsar. Some of their lineup also has the traditional riflescope shape which I prefer. Pulsar also has models with a built in rangefinder which comes in very handy at night. It is very hard to almost impossible to judge distance at night. I really wish my Adder had rangefinder capabilities. If I had had more cash at the time I would have gone with the Pulsar with rangefinder capabilities. Take a good look at specs when dealing with these scopes. You want to compare recognition, and identification distances for many models. Being a noobie,I almost made the mistake of purchasing a scope recommended to me by many hog hunters in my area. Problem is that they normally are shooting at 100 yards or less. What worked for them would not have served my purposes at all.
Be aware also that thermal scopes work very differently than traditional scopes as far as magnification and zoom are concerned. As you increase magnification with thermal your image will become grainy and in some instances can be completely unusable at the higher zoom levels. My scope base magnification is 4 and it goes up to 32. I spend 95% or more of my time at 4 as it is the clearest and gives me the best detail. Reticle MOA and Mrad settings are calibrated at 4 as well and I use that zoom rate to 450 yards or more on the Adder. 8 is usable. 16 becomes very grainy. I don't really find anything over 16 to be usable.
Color palettes also make a world of difference. Many folks seem to like black hot. It may be my eyes but I only find black hot useful in areas with little cover such as fields with low stubble. White hot for me is about the same. For quick easy pickup, identification, and hunting I use red hot about 99% of the time. With red hot heat signatures stand out like a neon sign. Areas of the body with higher heat just light up bright red. The eyes, neck, and vital areas in particular. This really aids in identification of the vitals and shot placement.
Of course there are more brands of scopes. But I know very little about them. I'm familiar somewhat with ATN but didn't care for the battery life and their reviews vary greatly. I picked the best warranty. But sacrificed the ability to go with higher recoil calibers. That really wasn't a priority for me.
 
Turpentine21, Thank You very much for your excellent response!

I tried studying the different scopesā€¦..but it was much like 'a hog look'n at a wrist watch"!

I did look a the Pulsar's, but you gave me some real good "hands on" info that I wanted/needed! Like you, I prefer it to resemble a conventional rifle scope! The built-in range finder would be greatā€¦.especially for smaller targets beyond 400!

Thanks Again, memtb
 
Hunting at night is a lot like hunting in a black hole. In most fields I will make a range card with my rangefinder or a mapping program on my iPhone beforehand. Most of our deer are shot from 150-450 yards if everything is perfect. I talked to AGM a few different times via email and they are hoping to come out with some better Mrad and moa ranging reticles. They always respond quickly and are very nice. I would go with at least 384 and 640 if I had the cash. I hope that they will build a clip on type rangefinder that will connect through blue tooth if nothing else. As of Last January, every scope they make in 384 or above comes with a 5 year warranty. That's pretty strong.
As said before deer are easy to Id at 800 yards in red hot mode. I often look at alligators which being cold blooded are different. Especially in water. I find that black hot works better there. My AGM also has SAR, shot activated recording. Which is good because I forget to cut video on from time to time. I can easily I'd Armadillos at 250. House cats as far as 400 plus and coyotes over 300. Of course telling coyotes from certain dogs can be difficult.
My scope costs around $3000. Another very handy item is a thermal monocular. It keeps you from having to scan with your rifle. Mainly with the monocular, all you need to pick up is a signature so you know something is there. Then you can transfer to the rifle. The AGM comes with one of the best Quick Release mounts in the business which is made by American Defense Manufacturing. It is rock solid. I switch from the Grendel to my AR 308 fairly regularly and have zero profiles for each. It's very easy to change the profile to match the rifle. I think this can be done for up to 5 rifles.
The Pulsar with rangefinder that I like runs about $5700. I know one guy running one on a 270win and he loves it.
The biggest detractor for me with Thermal is that you really can't see antlers well. When they are in velvet, it's no problem.
If you would like, I have video of kills at 100, 180, 380, and 425 I could send you via email so you could see red hot mode and clarity. Be sure also to learn the difference between 384 and 640. One is just as clear as the other but the 640 gives a larger field of view. There is a good u Tube video on that. Let me know if you would like those videos. They are high shoulder kill shots. I'm always a bit iffy about putting stuff like that on a public forum. Then again this is a hunting forum. Another last thing I just thought of. With The traditional scope type units, the reticle can easily be leveled. This is not so easy on the ones built like a red dot scope.

I have a night vision scope setup also but I rarely use it anymore. The system along with the IR light is very cumbersome. The key is having a good IR light. I've found that deer will shy away at times when that IR light comes on. I don't know if it throws a shadow or what but some are definitely aware of it. With thermal they are completely unaware of any presence.
 
Thanks again Terpentine21!

Yepā€¦ā€¦I'm game for the videos! Post some links, or PM me ā€¦..your call!

I did more research on the Pulsars, a might expensive but appear to be pretty much what I'm look'n for! I'm really liking the Thermion 2 LRFā€¦ā€¦and there's a lot to like. But, realistically speaking, the wife ain't nearly as enthusiastic as I am! šŸ˜ memtb
 
Well I for some reason can't get the videos to load from my ipad. Here are some links. Perhaps they will work
The 1st vid is 100 yards, 2nd is 180, 3rd is 425. 123 eldm at 2500 fps from a Grendel that I built myself.
if these don't work I'll be glad to send them to your email address I'm not much of a tech guru
 
In an attempt to "not" give too much infoā€¦.this is the best that I can offer!

This is for home/location defenseā€¦..after "IT" happens! Just part of prepping for the near inevitable! Budget restrictions limit many possibilities!

Not likely to be used for a lot of hunting! The goal is to see/shoot to an effective range, while minimizing exposure!

Perhaps a better worded question might beā€¦ā€¦what is the realistic distance that I can get a good heat signature and make an accurate shot on a 150 to 200 pound hog?

Thanks for attempting to answer my question! I thought that hunters using this type of equipment may be the best source of valid information! memtb
Look at
Legacy outdoors in Texas. Hans and Jason are two of the most experienced and knowledgeable. Call them they will answer all your questions. They have lots of youtube video comparisons.

Thanks

Buck
 
Turpentine21ā€¦ā€¦..Wow, that's impressive! Techie or not I'm impressed!
Hunting at night is a lot like hunting in a black hole. In most fields I will make a range card with my rangefinder or a mapping program on my iPhone beforehand. Most of our deer are shot from 150-450 yards if everything is perfect. I talked to AGM a few different times via email and they are hoping to come out with some better Mrad and moa ranging reticles. They always respond quickly and are very nice. I would go with at least 384 and 640 if I had the cash. I hope that they will build a clip on type rangefinder that will connect through blue tooth if nothing else. As of Last January, every scope they make in 384 or above comes with a 5 year warranty. That's pretty strong.
As said before deer are easy to Id at 800 yards in red hot mode. I often look at alligators which being cold blooded are different. Especially in water. I find that black hot works better there. My AGM also has SAR, shot activated recording. Which is good because I forget to cut video on from time to time. I can easily I'd Armadillos at 250. House cats as far as 400 plus and coyotes over 300. Of course telling coyotes from certain dogs can be difficult.
My scope costs around $3000. Another very handy item is a thermal monocular. It keeps you from having to scan with your rifle. Mainly with the monocular, all you need to pick up is a signature so you know something is there. Then you can transfer to the rifle. The AGM comes with one of the best Quick Release mounts in the business which is made by American Defense Manufacturing. It is rock solid. I switch from the Grendel to my AR 308 fairly regularly and have zero profiles for each. It's very easy to change the profile to match the rifle. I think this can be done for up to 5 rifles.
The Pulsar with rangefinder that I like runs about $5700. I know one guy running one on a 270win and he loves it.
The biggest detractor for me with Thermal is that you really can't see antlers well. When they are in velvet, it's no problem.
If you would like, I have video of kills at 100, 180, 380, and 425 I could send you via email so you could see red hot mode and clarity. Be sure also to learn the difference between 384 and 640. One is just as clear as the other but the 640 gives a larger field of view. There is a good u Tube video on that. Let me know if you would like those videos. They are high shoulder kill shots. I'm always a bit iffy about putting stuff like that on a public forum. Then again this is a hunting forum. Another last thing I just thought of. With The traditional scope type units, the reticle can easily be leveled. This is not so easy on the ones built like a red dot scope.

I have a night vision scope setup also but I rarely use it anymore. The system along with the IR light is very cumbersome. The key is having a good IR light. I've found that deer will shy away at times when that IR light comes on. I don't know if it throws a shadow or what but some are definitely aware of it. With thermal they are completely unaware of any presence.


Wowā€¦ā€¦Thanks. Impressive videos, and the shoot'n ain't bad either!

I have a tremendous amount to learnā€¦..but, your doing a good job of giving some of the questions some clarity!

At the very least, I'm starting to get an idea of things to look for! Your explaining things that make much more sense than reading the brochures and the spec charts.

The monocular is a good plan also! memtb
 
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Look at
Legacy outdoors in Texas. Hans and Jason are two of the most experienced and knowledgeable. Call them they will answer all your questions. They have lots of youtube video comparisons.

Thanks

Buck

You guys (you and Turpentine) are giving me lots to work with.

I'm so illiterate on the subjectā€¦..I do even know what to what to ask! memtb
 
You guys (you and Turpentine) are giving me lots to work with.

I'm so illiterate on the subjectā€¦..I do even know what to what to ask! memtb
Same questions as turpentine asked. Watch some videos of different thermals you will get an idea of the quality. There are some places in Texas that will let you rent a thermal for a weekend. It would be worth it once you think you have made up your mind. It is hard when you are first starting out. Pulsar talquin would be a good start

Thanks

Buck
 
I apologizeā€¦..I used the wrong terminology! I meant a thermal scopeā€¦.I really should proof-read my posts more carefully!

I'm looking for a thermal that will mount on a Picatinny Rail via a quick release system, really no need for more than 8x magnification, rechargeable via USB type system, possibly a range finder, multiple reticle choices, multiple color options, can handle heavy recoil, able to pick up an image somewhere beyond 500 yards, and is of good quality.

It seems that many claim to offer these things and moreā€¦..but good image quality and overall unit quality are paramount! memtb
AGM!! the more you spend the better the clarity
 
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