Help: First Ladder Test...now what

[Deleted member 107666]

Running out of time to finish this load up before opening day.

Plan is to shoot a group of 77, cold bore, for ES over the chrono, if it holds single digit I'll run it out to 300 yards for seating depth test. Pick the best group from that and verify it shoots at distance.

Will have more time this winter to fine tune the load for next year. I appreciate all the advice fellas! I've gone from knowing ZERO about reloading 6 months ago....at this point I'm happy to have a load thr goes bang at all

 

[L.Sherm]

Plan is to shoot a group of 77, cold bore, for ES over the chrono, if it holds single digit I'll run it out to 300 yards

Dont get hung up on single digit ES, theres literally a .5 difference between a 215 running 3000 vrs 3020 fps at 500 yards. Not many of us can shoot that difference including me, let the target tell you. My opinion is a temp stable powder is more important than single ES

 

[Deleted member 107666]

Thanks Sherman. If short on time, what would you do next then? 77 is the flat spot...do I play with accuracy out at range at say 76.8, 77, 77.2 to stay near that node and THEN seating depth, or load 77 and run seating depth?

ES does matter, though, so at what point do I test ES as I read seating depth can effect ES/SD as well if the load is close to case capacity.

I can shoot steel tomorrow at any distance range I like (probably set up paper but may just shoot steel and use the range buddy app to measure). Just not sure what to test next. Only have 2-3 more range trips left and still need to run thos load out to distance

 

[L.Sherm]

Use the chrono to tell you what the load is running but not the determining factor.
Stretch it out as far as you can and start with the load you think is best and fine tune with primers, seating depth and neck tension. Pay more attention to what the target is telling you than the chrono.

 

[L.Sherm]

I have found when you have the right powder case prep i.e annealing, neck tension and primers get your E.S down.

 

[L.Sherm]

Anymore I'm going to inline Wilson seating dies made from my chamber reamer it makes it alot nicer to do seating depth test at the range I just seat everything long and final seat at the range as I test.

 

[nicholasjohn]

Why couldnt you do a ladder test at 100...if the the ladder is to visually identify a velocity flat spot and its confirmed with a chrono to be that same flat spot...sure the stringing wont be as great, but its telling you the same data, no?

You could find the velocity flat spot without even shooting at target. ( The chronograph is for finding the flat spot, and it works just as well for that whether you have bullet holes to look at or not.) The target is for verification, and often at close range the holes won't be far enough apart to tell you anything. At 100 yards, the vertical dispersion may or may not be great enough to get the picture, but at 300 it certainly should be. So, if you're going to verify what the chronograph is telling you with a ladder on a target, doing it at 300 yards will tell you everything you want to know better than a 100 yard target will. It's just spreading the holes further apart so that the grouping at the velocity flat spot is more obvious.

 

[ronstone09]

First time working up a load, ever. Not sure where to go from here?

Any and all inputs welcome. #2 was on me...was a little jumpy.

300wm, 26" proof, berger 215s, H1000, .020 jump, 2.781 CBTO, 3.565 COAL

Indoors, 100 yards (should it string that much at 100?) Zero target at bottom is 2" by 2", aiming bottom left and dialed up (except fouler)

Hunting rifle, all shots were cold bore.

Thinking 76 to 77.6 is my high node.

Saw pressure at 78.5 (primer flattening, bolt lift wasnt sticky as far as I can tell).

Where to go from here. Load 76.7 and do seating depth or load some 3 round groups first?
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You should move out to 200-400 yards to do your ladder testing as 100 yards doesn't give you adequate data as the bullet dont have time to react

 

[Deleted member 107666]

You could find the velocity flat spot without even shooting at target. ( The chronograph is for finding the flat spot, and it works just as well for that whether you have bullet holes to look at or not.) The target is for verification, and often at close range the holes won't be far enough apart to tell you anything. At 100 yards, the vertical dispersion may or may not be great enough to get the picture, but at 300 it certainly should be. So, if you're going to verify what the chronograph is telling you with a ladder on a target, doing it at 300 yards will tell you everything you want to know better than a 100 yard target will. It's just spreading the holes further apart so that the grouping at the velocity flat spot is more obvious.

The 6.5guys and satterlee seem to argue you could shoot this load in the dirt over a chrono and never shoot it on paper and come to the same (or very close) results as if they had shot it on paper. It's only looking for a velocity flat spot. Velocity shows on a chrono the same as it does in vertical stringing, no?

What am I missing on the target shot at 100 yards? Looks to me like there are two pretty obvious nodes? The higher at 76.5-77.5 (maybe 76-77.5)

The velocities verified that....I guess I'm having a hard time understanding what I'm not seeing...on a smaller scale at 100 yes, but it still gives me the same data, no?

 

[Ronald W Schaefer]

Have you settled on this bullet? You might try that 77.0 load and two or three other bullet choices that meet your needs.

 

[L.Sherm]

What am I missing on the target shot at 100 yards?

Your gonna have to stretch your shooting out to 500 to see the difference yourself.

 

[BW64]

Since I shoot my 6.5 out to 1100 in matches I look for a good group at 100 then it's out to 600 for seating depth. Just did a test on 147 eldm. Respectable at 100 but with a little tweak in depth it's 1/2 moa at 600. I used to worry about es & sd etc but all I did was waste ammo.

BW

 

[nicholasjohn]

The 6.5guys and satterlee seem to argue you could shoot this load in the dirt over a chrono and never shoot it on paper and come to the same (or very close) results as if they had shot it on paper. It's only looking for a velocity flat spot. Velocity shows on a chrono the same as it does in vertical stringing, no?

What am I missing on the target shot at 100 yards? Looks to me like there are two pretty obvious nodes? The higher at 76.5-77.5 (maybe 76-77.5)

The velocities verified that....I guess I'm having a hard time understanding what I'm not seeing...on a smaller scale at 100 yes, but it still gives me the same data, no?

I don't think you're missing anything. It's pretty easy to miss the grouping of bullet holes at 100 yards because the holes are all closer together than they would have been if you had done it at 300, but in your case it was pretty obvious. It just isn't always this obvious. In general, it's going to be easier to read the picture when it's done at 300 yards, but yours happens to be an easy read. It's a matter of scale, and the scale favors doing ladder testing at longer range.

I agree that it looks like you've got a workable node that is centered around 77 grains. If you cut it a little finer with increments of .2 grains either side of that charge weight, you'll probably end up with a sweet spot that you can then fine-tune by varying the seating depth to get yourself an accurate long-range load.

I agree with what everybody else has said that you should do this testing at the range you plan to shoot this rifle, whether it be for target work or hunting. You might find that darn near any load will group well enough at 100 yards to shoot deer out to about 300 or so, but most of those loads won't shoot well enough to shoot them at 600+. That's why everybody is recommending doing your testing at a minimum of 300 yards, so you can narrow it down to a load that will continue to group well further out. It takes the same number of bullets to do it at that range as it does to do it at 100, and most of the time the results are going to be easier to read. Just remember that at longer ranges, the wind has more time to work on your bullets, so don't just look at total group size - vertical dispersion is what matters most when ladder testing.

 

[Deleted member 107666]

That makes sense. Thanks!

I loaded 5 at 77 to check velocity/ES...then have seating depth test loaded up at .010-.040,
Will test on steel tomorrow at 500.

Once I find that searing depth it likes, can I vary the load .2 on either side to fine tune?

I read that seating depth typically is adjusted for horizontal and charge weight is mostly in the vertical. It's one of those chicken or the egg arguements?

I guess I could have done .2gr around 77 and then took that ans adjusted seating depth too.

Will post up results, good or bad.

Awesome info fellas and thanks to everyone for the inputs..alot to learn/process