ladder test help.....

[MSLRHunter]

The original poster asked about his ladder test, this is a good one. This us exactly what a ladder test should show. The purpose of a ladder test is to prevent having to load and fire a lot of shots, which with a 243wssm, will save barrel life. Some guys love shooting 20 shot groups and replacing barrels, I prefer to save my shooting for actual hunting scenarios and long range, cold bore shots. Just my opinion.

 

[B-RAD]

For the love of god just follow my advice.... 5 shot groups of each ammo - that gives you 10 different loads you can shoot out of one 50 round box, by the time your done you can go home, drink a beer, clean your gun, and measure your targets and actually understand how your gun shoots....

A few pages back I posted some load data - they are all 5 shot groups at 100 yards... and I know how my rifle/ar shoots because of these tests...

I'll post again...
Cooper
AR-15

 

[Tikkamike]

exactly my thoughts. 1 box of bullets is a lot of load development

 

[TOM H]

For the love of god just follow my advice.... 5 shot groups of each ammo - that gives you 10 different loads you can shoot out of one 50 round box, by the time your done you can go home, drink a beer, clean your gun, and measure your targets and actually understand how your gun shoots....

A few pages back I posted some load data - they are all 5 shot groups at 100 yards... and I know how my rifle/ar shoots because of these tests...

I'll post again...
Cooper
AR-15

You might want to read the OP question again. It's about ladder test @ 520yds.

 

[B-RAD]

Your right good point..

I should of been arguing this better.


Why are you testing loads at 500 yards.... seriously...

 

[TOM H]

Your right good point..

I should of been arguing this better.


Why are you testing loads at 500 yards.... seriously...

This site is called Long Range Hunting and most posters have interest in that type hunting/shooting.

There nothing to argue about you might so alittle reading up on Long Range and you understand alittle better. I post something about LR ladder test you might find intersting Long-Range Load Development

 

[B-RAD]

I've read the article, way before you posted it...

I see no reason to test loads at 500 yards, it's completely ignorant actually.

test your loads at atleast half that distance to really understand what your gun does, at 500 yards the wind plays to much of a roll in screwing up what could of been your best group. After you get your good group at 100-250 yards you then can test at 500 yards. Until then your just wasting your time and will never really understand *** your doing...

 

[justgoto]

I've read the article, way before you posted it...

I see no reason to test loads at 500 yards, it's completely ignorant actually.

test your loads at atleast half that distance to really understand what your gun does, at 500 yards the wind plays to much of a roll in screwing up what could of been your best group. After you get your good group at 100-250 yards you then can test at 500 yards. Until then your just wasting your time and will never really understand *** your doing...

"to really understand what your gun does" you must know how it shoots at range, especially when you are using it for "Long Range Hunting!"

Your "data" doesn't even have velocities listed. The incomplete data tells you nothing about how your rifles group at "Long Range." Nothing! When testing at range you know immediately if the velocities are too varying to use for "Long Range Hunting!"

If you don't like this method, DON'T USE IT! Continue to shoot your groups at handgun range feeling superior. More power to you!

But don't brow-beat people with statements like "completely ignorant" because you don't understand their methods. Which is what I call "ironic!"

 

[TOM H]

I've read the article, way before you posted it...

I see no reason to test loads at 500 yards, it's completely ignorant actually.

test your loads at atleast half that distance to really understand what your gun does, at 500 yards the wind plays to much of a roll in screwing up what could of been your best group. After you get your good group at 100-250 yards you then can test at 500 yards. Until then your just wasting your time and will never really understand *** your doing...

It help to watch the language in trying to make a point.

I find it very stange that you become such an expert since according to your post on 6/21/2011 "I haven't shot at a target over 100yrds as it's the only thing I have right now, looking to shoot at a 200yrd range this year."

How you comment on real world experience past 200yd when you haven't even shot that yardage yet.

 

[JeffVN]

Living in Las Vegas, I find it a bit too windy most of the time to do much development at 500+ yards. But I think its a great idea when you can manage it.

When shooting ladders, I tend to do that at 400 meters (roughly 420 yards), and use a 3/4" piece of plywood that allows me to shoot 3 ladders all at the same time, in a round-robin.

Shooting 3 ladders at the same time tends to reduce the posibility of a one-shot aberation in results, and also tends to even out the wind and temperature related events that occur during a shorter string of fire.

When I find a likely set of loads, I then re-shoot a new set of ladders at 400 meters, but in smaller increments to try to nail down the exact load. It burns a bit more powder and throat, but it is a process that has worked very well for me. Of course the final exam is shooting the chosen load for some groups at 950 to 1,000 yards.

B-RAD - I really try not to play with the trolls, as its counter productive to a decent conversation that is on topic, but I feel compelled to respond to your last post.

Frankly, until you shoot at 500 yards you'll never know what your rifle will do. Once you shoot at 500 yards and get cocky, then step back to 1,000 and see what it looks like. Then come back to 1,500+ yards each one is a different world that you have so far only read about.

 

[Tikkamike]

This post is just becoming a ****ing match, ...well i wanna **** too so here it is.

I dont do ladder testing like this, i dont get it, i half agree with everyone. B-rad and I think alike 5 shot groups are great for load development, that is how I work up my loads. I shoot 5 shot groups at 200-300 yards because there are fewer variables to deal with. then once I decide on a load I start backing up and testing it out to my max range with that specific rifle. I want to use my best loads so i see no problem in developing at 200 then playing with it at long range, wont my best group at 200 also be my best group at 500? HOWEVER I also agree with Jeff when he says 500-1000 and 1500 are all different worlds. I have only shot out to 1200 regularly SO FAR and even 1200 makes 1000 look like a walk in the park.. This post was about a ladder test I personaly think they are a waste of time but maybe thats a lack of knowledge on my part. I just like big samples of what my gun is doing not 1 shot samples that may or may not be a flier or a gust of wind. as long as the end result is that same who cares how you get there, good luck on your load development and I am going to read about this ladder testing maybe I can learn something.

 

[Ring]

Guys..... No need to bitch.. Normally I do all my normal testing groups @ 200 And with all my other guns this is fine... But I have gone threw over 120 rounds of this 87 gr vmax now using r19 and now varget and have good sub moa groups


After reading about the ladder test I was holding to narrow down my test range using the least amount of ammo as I could testing the varget

I think I have now narrowed that down to 39-39.7

 

[Mikecr]

Nobody with understanding of ladder testing has suggested that '1 shot samples' will provide a final load. The quest at this point is only to find a window of potential, for components chosen to that point(for longer range shooting than 100yds).
In the end, anyone would go to traditional 3-5sht group testing, inside a window, brought to light by a ladder.
It's one step, and given all the begining abstracts, it's a good place to start for many shooters.
Not all shooters

B-RAD's pile of guesses quickly landed him satisfactory performance -for 100yd grouping -with a 14tw Cooper. If he ever tests farther out, then, maybe he'll come to appreciate ladder testing.
Why? Because 100yd grouping is not directly representative of 500yd grouping. And neither is representative of ACCURACY, much less cold bore accuracy.
But then again, maybe he's done..

For long range load development;
I'm not lucky enough to grab every combination in the cabinet, assume a seating depth and primer, throw together 5sht groupings of every one in just 2-3 charge increments,, shoot em at 100yds,, simply pick the best group from one combination,, shoot several brazilian shot Bart-B groups, and with remaining barrel life find that I've hit on something worth a **** -at distance. No way..
Little realities like ES, or the assumed seating & primer, would force me to start all over..
I do swap around -some, but I run a ladder with each combination to find a clear window, before investing great efforts into load development with it.
The tail chasing has to atleast have direction(clockwise, or counterclockwise)!

How much is a brazilian, anyway?

 

[B-RAD]

"to really understand what your gun does" you must know how it shoots at range, especially when you are using it for "Long Range Hunting!"

Your "data" doesn't even have velocities listed. The incomplete data tells you nothing about how your rifles group at "Long Range." Nothing! When testing at range you know immediately if the velocities are too varying to use for "Long Range Hunting!"

If you don't like this method, DON'T USE IT! Continue to shoot your groups at handgun range feeling superior. More power to you!

But don't brow-beat people with statements like "completely ignorant" because you don't understand their methods. Which is what I call "ironic!"

hahahaaaaa... This is to funny.

I don't need to have shot over 100 yards to use common sense... Sorry.

The OP's Ladder test #4,7,13 is the best group at the 500+ yard test... that is telling me this test is completely garbage in every aspect you can think of... Prove me wrong, prove to me that you can pick out a decent window to load from? This is completely ridiculous... It's like you don't understand math, physics, ballistics, common sense... Seriously People... I'm glad one guy and somewhat the OP understands me, I even think bartb understands me... But you are completely ignorant if you think buying a new gun, making loads in a ladder type development and shooting 1 bullet of each powder load at 500 yards outside with the "elements" playing a role is a good idea... Then you need to go back to the "home" now...

Now if you said you were testing inside a 500' long building completely in a controlled environment and doing this testing I wouldn't be freaking out right now, but with 1 bullet, yes 1 bullet.. did I say 1 bullet... no you said 1 bullet... anyways.. at 500 yards you are asking GOD to stop the wind while you shoot... completely ridiculous...

BUT.... If you did 2 or 3 side by side exact ladder tests, at the same time. Meaning you shoot at target 1 with load 1, then target 2 with load 1, then target 3 with load 1, then back to target 1 with load 2, target 2 with load 2, target 3 with load 2, etc... does that make sense... then and only then can you completely feel confident in your testing at 500 yards.

Your welcome!