Help with ladder test

[FURMAN]

There u go. Good job, that is helping someone out much more than belittling comments.

WOW the my feelings are hurt crowd has snuck into the hunting community when I was not looking. You can choose to read the post however you would like. There is nothing rude about it unless you consider being forthright rude. You and I obviously come from different backgrounds. I personally would argue that you posting your nothing to add comments in the thread is worse than anything I could have said. I do not have the time to argue with you and your feelings. YOU ARE the reason I hate trying to help people on LRH.

OP if you want the best advice for load development period the two options I suggested are both proven. The Ladder can be done with less shots but requires more distance. The OCW should be done at 100 but requires more components. Good luck.

 

[nt7332]

WOW the my feelings are hurt crowd has snuck into the hunting community when I was not looking. You can choose to read the post however you would like. There is nothing rude about it unless you consider being forthright rude. You and I obviously come from different backgrounds. I personally would argue that you posting your nothing to add comments in the thread is worse than anything I could have said. I do not have the time to argue with you and your feelings. YOU ARE the reason I hate trying to help people on LRH.

OP if you want the best advice for load development period the two options I suggested are both proven. The Ladder can be done with less shots but requires more distance. The OCW should be done at 100 but requires more components. Good luck.

Great advice from the Omniscient shooter/reloader! Thanks bro

 

[PredatorSlayer]

There u go. Good job, that is helping someone out much more than belittling comments.

Furman comes across as a real know it all ***** 99% of the time, always talking down to everyone. Its unfortunate too because the guy occasionally shares something useful - its just hard to sift through the hubris to get to it.

 

[Mc Fraser]

Thank you all for your help. Sounds like I have to go back to the drawing board and perhaps I might get lucky with this bullet.

 

[fiftybmg]

... if a load shows roughly the same velocity for 3 or 4 different powder charges, that is a good indication of a node

In my experience, this is an indication of peaking burn efficiency [ powder vs velocity ] for a load.

You can't decide what's an accuracy node if you don't have the visible difference in group sizes to back it up.

When you add powder, there should be a proportional increase in velocity that is linear. When there is less velocity increase per unit powder, the graph line changes direction, and that is where the blast and recoil starts to increase faster than the velocity does.

This does not mean accuracy is bad or pressure is high. It also does not indicate an accuracy node.

 

[User4302021]

It's Furman's world, we are all just living in it.

 

[FEENIX]

Thank you all for your help. Sounds like I have to go back to the drawing board and perhaps I might get lucky with this bullet.

Sometimes, it is best to step back and re-evaluate. Please take no offense but while you're at it, you might also want to re-visit your understanding of CBTO and COAL. I remember having the same conversation on your rifle with a pressure problem.

https://bergerbullets.com/effects-o...coal-and-cartridge-base-to-ogive-cbto-part-2/

I couldn't seat the bullet at 3.34 as my chamber is short? I believe (99%) it was seated to 3.30, I use CBTO not COAL.

My .270 AI loaded with 175 Matrix has a CBTO = 2.675" and COAL = 3.340".

 

[frostop]

As I see it the "Saterley" Test is a starting point.

Based on your data, i see another potential flat spot at the upper end-rounds 9,10 and 11.
At this point I would take those loads and load three rounds of each and as others have stated find a place that you can shoot longer range-if possible the max range that "you" expect to shoot and do the test again only with three rounds of each loading. This is the only way "you" will know what to expect when the moment of truth is in front of you!!

If you plan to shoot longer than 100 yds "at all" while hunting you really owe it to yourself and the game to test at those ranges and verify the load and dope.


Gary

 

[misterc01]

HERE

https://www.longrangehunting.com/threads/tuning-for-long-range.192998/

https://www.6mmbr.com/laddertest.html

http://optimalchargeweight.embarqspace.com/ocw-test-example/4529811475

Let me add my thanks. I appreciate any information that might help me, and a good set of references is invaluable. I am sure many will appreciate your sharing your expertise with the rest of us.

 

[nt7332]

There are always questions posted up interpreting velocities when running a Satterlee type load test. He stated during his explanation of his method that it was not for beginner reloaders and is designed for more advanced reloaders. He also stated ideally it was meant to run at 300 yards and out. Doing this method at 100 yards will not give u any thing but velocities. While this is some valuable information having tangible results on paper coupled with velocities is way more information. I have used his method several times and I have had great luck with it but to me it compliments a OCW test and not to be used as a stand-alone method.

 

[7mmTikkaShooter]

Hello All,
I have a Tikka T3 in 270 Win. I did a ladder test yesterday: 140gr Berger Classic Hunter, Nosler brass, BR-2 primer, H4831SC. Berger reloading book suggests 58gr is the max and I should get 3051 fps. Granted my barrel is 22-7/16" in length but that is almost 200 fps difference. There were no signs of pressure.
https://bergerbullets.com/pdf/270-Win-140gr.pdf
The rifle shoots 140gr Sierra SBT with the same powder 1/4MOA at 100 yds.
I couldn't seat the bullet at 3.34 as my chamber is short? I believe (99%) it was seated to 3.30, I use CBTO not COAL.
I know you want to see pictures with the shots, let's just say there where all within a 2 MOA with most of them within 1 MOA grouping at 100 yds. I just can't do long-range ladder tests, I don't have that option.

1. Based on only the information attached and above, would you give it another try or move on to another bullet/powder combo?
2. The labradar recorded a 60 fps difference between #3,4 and 5. Can that be an error? This is a purely theoretical question as I don't want to shoot a bullet at 2700 fps MV.
3. Have you seen MV speeds like this before? I am puzzled by the fact that MV is all over the place.

Thanks.

Ok, so it seems as though this thread got a little hostile but in the mix a few people have mentioned that what you performed was a "Saterlee Test". Not the same as a "Ladder Test". They are very similar in concept just skinning the cat in a different way. One can make an pro/con argument for either test. Personally I believe the Saterlee test does work and have used it. What I see in your results would be promising to me in the top 4 charges. What I would do is to run that test with 3 loads per charge, then average their velocities to plot your graph. Maybe start higher with your first charge say #8 and load a little past where this test finished since you said there were no pressure signs. I personally wouldn't walk away from this combo of components yet. Hope this is helpful and good luck.

 

[Zymurgist]

2. The labradar recorded a 60 fps difference between #3,4 and 5. Can that be an error? This is a purely theoretical question as I don't want to shoot a bullet at 2700 fps MV.

Yes, It can be an error. The problem with using only one sample firing is that you don't know if it is real or if it is an outlier (error). I would want 3 to 5 samples (firings) at each loading to draw any conclusions from this data set.

 

[User4302021]

There are always questions posted up interpreting velocities when running a Satterlee type load test. He stated during his explanation of his method that it was not for beginner reloaders and is designed for more advanced reloaders. He also stated ideally it was meant to run at 300 yards and out. Doing this method at 100 yards will not give u any thing but velocities. While this is some valuable information having tangible results on paper coupled with velocities is way more information. I have used his method several times and I have had great luck with it but to me it compliments a OCW test and not to be used as a stand-alone method.

With respect to you sir, I believe you are a bit confused.

The Satterlee test is about velocity exclusively. It is the Audette style ladder that is performed on paper at distance.

 

[nt7332]

Primarily his method is for velocity but he has also stated optimally that velocity data coupled with 300 yd target shooting to get this data is best situation for reading results.