Help... Am I making long range shooting too hard?

[StanleyActual]

Dope cards? That is what we did 15 years ago before the PDA and ballistic app. Today we have kestrel and phones with amazingly accurate apps that take care of the issues. A dope card goes in my pack for the off chance I have an issue with a device. At most I may have 5 cards for the areas in which I will hunt. With a little experience, especially 500 and less, you'll not see that much difference unless going from one extreme to another, which is rare. You can literally use one card and make small adjustments. So if you are set on a card, make a card, and play with your app for the average. I bet you find very very little difference in a 2000 ft elevation change and 20f temp swing to 500.

Zeroing. Most rifles zero changes very little from temp and elevation unless you have very sensitive powder. In that case, it's all about the temp and you zero is likely only going to be effected by the change in velocity. I may zero at 2800 feet and hunt at 9000. My zero doesn't change, so it's nothing I worry about.

If your ammo and rifle profiles are dialed in with extremely accurate data all you have to worry about is accurate ranging, accurate atmoshperic input, wind call, and shooting fundamentals with a excellent stabile shooting position. In the end, wind, and fundamentals are your biggest problems to face in the field while hunting.

I don't disagree with the use ballistic apps, just depending "solely" on them. Murphy's law. Pretty easy to hang a dope card off your scope, tape it to your stock, etc. I'll never depend solely on my phone / app etc. that's just no bueno IMO.

these here are pretty handy

 

[del2les]

Don't over complicate things for your 5-600 max (MR). I cannot begin to count the game I have shot at those distances using simple holdover and Kentucky windage with old scopes without turrets.

I use a 300 zero n RF and Kestral but in decades past, it was all observation wind reading and ranging via scope, old prismatic and then the old first gen laser.

Knowing the average chest height of your game gives a fair comparison for holdover on quick shots, but if time allows, always take time for the more precise calcs.

Keep it simple. (Kiss rule)

 

[xsn10s]

This illustrates how old, and cheap lol,, I am. It's been like this for over 15 years. I limit this rifle to 400 yards with it's current load. I do practice out to 800 yards. Standard 30-06 and even has a custom pitted bore from the previous owner. Leupold 2.5-8X with mildots. Cards on both sides. 180gr PT on the inside and 168 CC on the picture side. KISS.

 

[StanleyActual]

This illustrates how old, and cheap lol,, I am. It's been like this for over 15 years. I limit this rifle to 400 yards with it's current load. I do practice out to 800 yards. Standard 30-06 and even has a custom pitted bore from the previous owner. Leupold 2.5-8X with mildots. KISS.

Folks been makin it happen for a looooooong time with plain old Mil dots!

 

[xsn10s]

Folks been makin it happen for a looooooong time with plain old Mil dots!

YES SIR!!! Been doing that with my PSS since 1991!!!

 

[BrentM]

I don't disagree with the use ballistic apps, just depending "solely" on them. Murphy's law. Pretty easy to hang a dope card off your scope, tape it to your stock, etc. I'll never depend solely on my phone / app etc. that's just no bueno IMO

Never said they aren't necessary. He said something about 100's of cards blah blah blah. That's nuts. I also said I carry one. I have a 2 sided card that covers 4000 ft and 50f temp swing. People make it way harder than it is because they don't spend enough time playing with the data. For example, you will not see a wind chart on my dope card. I don't need it. I use a quick formula in my head that works extremely well, it's quick, and doesn't clutter my card. Others need a wind chart because they don't understand how their particular set up is effected by wind. Ballistic apps are the way we learn about our set ups. We confirm that data in the field. On another note, I have had device failures. Never a phone, but Sig kilo 2400's were a nightmare. Went through 4. The stupid thing would stop ranging past 400 and eventually would fail and stop working. Having that happen in the field for a long range hunter is not cool. All the dope charts in the world won't do sheet if your lrf fails you can't reticle range. Math sucks when you're stressed, ha ha

 

[StanleyActual]

Never said they aren't necessary. He said something about 100's of cards blah blah blah. That's nuts. I also said I carry one. I have a 2 sided card that covers 4000 ft and 50f temp swing. People make it way harder than it is because they don't spend enough time playing with the data. For example, you will not see a wind chart on my dope card. I don't need it. I use a quick formula in my head that works extremely well, it's quick, and doesn't clutter my card. Others need a wind chart because they don't understand how their particular set up is effected by wind. Ballistic apps are the way we learn about our set ups. We confirm that data in the field. On another note, I have had device failures. Never a phone, but Sig kilo 2400's were a nightmare. Went through 4. The stupid thing would stop ranging past 400 and eventually would fail and stop working. Having that happen in the field for a long range hunter is not cool. All the dope charts in the world won't do sheet if your lrf fails you can't reticle range. Math sucks when you're stressed, ha ha

100% Agree! Zero need for a binder full of dope cards .

I use the Gun MPH method for figuring holds in wind. No math needed. Quick and easy. IMO doesn't get simpler than that. Exactly how you want it

 

[73driver]

I had this same dilemma a few years back. After a couple years shooting PRS matches I was comfortable with my Strelok Pro and Seekins Havak 6.5C. My son just finished his hitch as an Army sniper and we had our first hunt together since he enlisted. The evening before the hunt I loaded temp, humidity and barometric pressure. The temp and humidity as reported by local weather picked up by my iPhone and pressure from the iPhone internal barometer. I was thinking evening conditions would be close to next day mid morning. With all that done I made a dope card (because when you get that 450yard shot who has time to F with a ballistic app). In the morning and set up glassing I would load up my app with current data and check my dope card, turns out the dope card was still good. You could also get temp, humidity and pressure using a Kestral Drop. Several days into the hunt my son spotted a buck about 480 yards. I told him to get on the rifle and track his buck. I got on the LRF and binos and gave him an opening the deer would pass through, that it was 360 yards and had gave him his dial up. As the buck was about through the 360 yard opening it paused and my son nailed it dead on. Make a DOPE card when on location and the night before (it will be close). During the hunt when you have time verify DOPE card. For long shots it is best to have a spotter do the ranging and giving you the dial up (you will be busy getting set and getting on target). A spotter also helps, helps a whole lot when you take that shot. You need eyes on to let you know if game is dead, moving, missed or tumbling down hill and pilled up dead 200 yards lower. Have a great hunt.

PS I have Strelok Pro and a phone app so I pass on the Kestral or ballistics/LRF combo, they are and option but I already have a phone and got Kestrel Drop as a backup for atmospherics. Also my preference is to load temp, humidity and pressure into the app and let it figure DA.

 

[xsn10s]

100% Agree! Zero need for a binder full of dope cards .

I use the Gun MPH method for figuring holds in wind. No math needed. Quick and easy. IMO doesn't get simpler than that. Exactly how you want it

Math sucks when you're stressed, ha ha

I agree. Functional simplicity. So the OP just needs to try a few suggestion on here and see what works for him. Some methods work better for each individual. I don't have a Kestrel but would love one. I can read wind, I've been doing that for 40 years or so. but a Kestrel with a ballistics app would be welcomed. A good rangefinder, range card for backup phone app or kestrel and that's about all you should ever need. The range card and range finder has been all I've used for twenty years. Before that it was just the card and range estimation. All the new gear can help greatly. But the mental game needs a shift. I understand this because of lack of good practice two years ago. That caused me to miss a few EASY shots. The OP would do well to calm himself and gain confidence by simplifying HIS method of taking a shot. Then get out there and practice and have FUN!!!

 

[StanleyActual]

I agree. Functional simplicity. So the OP just needs to try a few suggestion on here and see what works for him. Some methods work better for each individual. I don't have a Kestrel but would love one. I can read wind, I've been doing that for 40 years or so. but a Kestrel with a ballistics app would be welcomed. A good rangefinder, range card for backup phone app or kestrel and that's about all you should ever need. The range card and range finder has been all I've used for twenty years. Before that it was just the card and range estimation. All the new gear can help greatly. But the mental game needs a shift. I understand this because of lack of good practice two years ago. That caused me to miss a few EASY shots. The OP would do well to calm himself and gain confidence by simplifying HIS method of taking a shot. Then get out there and practice and have FUN!!!

100%

 

[bullet man]

If you don't want to spend money on toys check out the drop tables in your reloading manual. I was amazed at how close they are I set my rifle 1.5 inches high for a 300-yard zero and it was only off about a tenth of an inch. Make one card from 300 to 600 yards using the drop tables shoot to verify and forget about it

 

[jrock]

Yeah, toss the dope card. Get a good app. Well worth it and much less mental processing. The human mind can only process so much data when it comes to trigger pull time. Keep it simple.

 

[BrentM]

I agree. Functional simplicity. So the OP just needs to try a few suggestion on here and see what works for him. Some methods work better for each individual. I don't have a Kestrel but would love one. I can read wind, I've been doing that for 40 years or so. but a Kestrel with a ballistics app would be welcomed. A good rangefinder, range card for backup phone app or kestrel and that's about all you should ever need. The range card and range finder has been all I've used for twenty years. Before that it was just the card and range estimation. All the new gear can help greatly. But the mental game needs a shift. I understand this because of lack of good practice two years ago. That caused me to miss a few EASY shots. The OP would do well to calm himself and gain confidence by simplifying HIS method of taking a shot. Then get out there and practice and have FUN!!!

Yes sir. I have already burned 1500 rounds for the year. Trigger time and study. I shoot a lot of positional and play with data. I nerd out on ballistics, those apps allows us to model everything under the sun and see what is supposed to happen in changing conditions. Then apply that knowledge in the field. It is very accurate. When you hunt and shoot in mountain terrain that goes from 3500 to 10000 feet you better have a solid understanding of what your rifle is going to do and why. To me that is the fun in it but that's how I roll. My wife, for example could care less, just wants to send a round and hit the intended target and prefers I don't talk, just dial the rifle and shut my pie hole.

 

[xsn10s]

Yes sir. I have already burned 1500 rounds for the year. Trigger time and study. I shoot a lot of positional and play with data. I nerd out on ballistics, those apps allows us to model everything under the sun and see what is supposed to happen in changing conditions. Then apply that knowledge in the field. It is very accurate. When you hunt and shoot in mountain terrain that goes from 3500 to 10000 feet you better have a solid understanding of what your rifle is going to do and why. To me that is the fun in it but that's how I roll. My wife, for example could care less, just wants to send a round and hit the intended target and prefers I don't talk, just dial the rifle and shut my pie hole.

Yeah I'm a bit of a ballistics nerd too. It came in handy when I lived in Bend and go from 3500 ft to much higher in a short time. Bend had many micro climates too which would influence trajectories. Add the ever changing weather and wind conditions was good training for adjusting your dope on the fly.