Hammer Bullets and Hyper Velocity, The Misconception

[xsn10s]

I had a challenge with Hammer Hunter last week…260 gr 338 NM 2850 fps, 70 yds. Good sized 6x6 bull elk, two solid broadsides shots - one more in the shoulder the other a little behind should. Bull ran approx 500 yd…third shot further back hit liver. Upon autopsy, first two shots didn't penetrate chest cavity, sent small fragments into on side lung. May be isolated event but concerning. Fortunately recover bull.

Other the first two shots could you describe how large the fragments were? How far was the third shot on the liver and were the fragments larger?

 

[Stgraves260]

I would keep it simple. Follow the recommended velocities on the box. My Berger VLDs expand at 1300 FPS. Hammers, Hornady ELD, Nosler AB need 1600 FPS. I've seen some bullets need 1800 - 2000 FPS to expand properly. Use whatever bullet you like, just know the velocity that is needed for the bullet to expand properly. Meaning what the max and minimum velocities are.

 

[Stgraves260]

Why is it all the negative reviews on any bullet are always with elk

LoL!!! I was just thinking that same thing. You took the text right out of my thumbs. LoL

 

[Kentuckywindage]

Is that load in the .243?

Yes. It's a Tikka T3 Superlite. No pressure signs .

 

[oneeyejohn]

Great stuff. For those who haven't read it yet, this is a must read: http://www.rathcoombe.net/sci-tech/ballistics/wounding.html It's one of the best pieces of research on what kills and the basis for why Hammer bullets were designed they way they are.

Thank you for this link. I read one Item from the link and will go to it again and again for other subjects. Very, Very interesting.

 

[xsn10s]

I would keep it simple. Follow the recommended velocities on the box. My Berger VLDs expand at 1300 FPS. Hammers, Hornady ELD, Nosler AB need 1600 FPS. I've seen some bullets need 1800 - 2000 FPS to expand properly. Use whatever bullet you like, just know the velocity that is needed for the bullet to expand properly. Meaning what the max and minimum velocities are.

On Hammer's website they list min velocity of 1800 fps. They haven't found a max velocity because the bullet is designed to hold up.

From the website: "All of the Hammer Bullets that are designed for hunting are impact tested down to 1800 fps impact velocity for proper deformation. We have not been able to impact a Hammer Bullet at too high of an impact velocity. They will retain the same weight at low and high velocity impacts."

 

[oneeyejohn]

There has been a ton of discussion on Hammers and Hyper Velocity and it has confused some folks into thinking that Hammers work at conventional speeds when they will, This is a post from my Brother from down under explaining this. And a bit of background on the man he has probably killed more animals than all of us combined ( I'm not exaggerating ) and I would not doubt that he has tested every bullet on the planet, I hope this clears the water a bit
Bean





Gday
A bit has started to filter through on you need hyper-velocity to kill with hammers

Wohh please step back & let's address what's needed to kill
The mechanics are across any brand
The triangle =
Shot placement
Penertration
Wound channel ( permanent & non )

So ill break into a couple categories & give my thoughts of where we need to look @ these

Frangible =Great in the low to mid range velocities & especially if you keep off big bones & useless actually dangerous on dangerous game
Hard quater to raking shots definitely not what I call a efficient killer
True longrange they have a place but I do say only a few select marksman or women can utilise the pill way out yonder
Move to high to hyper-velocity & they become ethically a nightmare with consistency
& here lies the major problem so your a 1k shooter & able to hit that dinner plate once all dialled & a animal gets up 50/100 yrd & impact will most likely be over 3k & you hit that solid bone its not a happy outcome ( & some even solid bone is not needed & failures occur) & facts don't lie , yes i here people say but it never has happened to me well you just shoot enough animals & it will
Meat damage can be ridiculous


Bonded
A bit better on the high velocity but less reliable on the low velocity than frangible yet @ hyper fail again as triangle wasn't supported
Meat damage can be ridiculous


Monos ( not including hammers as the meplat is your key & these rules do not apply imo)
Some Monos need speed to function
Low velocity they have more tendency to pencil or like with the barnes type ( gs ,oep, gmx etc )
Penertration is usually never a problem
High/hyper-velocity they shed petal & can become performance detrimental
Move to the ones that shed their petals ( raptor ,gpa leigh etc ) they preform way better @ lower velocity than the barnes type yet here is the big difference with the hammers its the meplat for a better word is a round nose or a less than 100% flat meplat most 40 to 75% yes they penertrate but we aren't all shooting rhino / elephant/ hippo
Broaching process makes this more pronounced i believe
They Withstand the hyper & preform pretty well & meplat is not as compromised so overall pretty good across a very wide base of velocity/ animals & angles

This is where most people relate to the need for speed in monos as it is the case in most monos as they do have a tendency to fail by fail i mean the worst fail a lost animal just like frangibles it happens

Hammers don't come into the above of a deficiency across the above velocities so use them with confidence & dont consider a low velocity as a no go zone

Now onto hammers with lost
2 animals i no of
1st animal a elk & was on Longrangehunting.com
A nice gentleman but lacking in his understanding of what went wrong or why imo ( i don't care if & would welcome if someone tells him this & gladly discuss so we all can learn )
I believe its twist related ( SF ) & he seem to shut his mind off if only he went a little extra to help others from potentially doing the same but ea to their own & i respect his decision

2nd I lost one animal a buff & let's get to the bottom of that & where the fail lied & with what
This buff was hit & not stopped in its tracks ( which seldom happens ) & thick cover was entered by the buff & due to the risk factor this little black duck wasn't entering the heavy cover when on a sunny day its dark ( rainforest like ) & the time i usually wait to follow up im not going in with a torch the next day we went some 1000 km in another direction & salted capes needed attending to
Some weeks later the animal was found & it had travelled around 100 yrd
So the pill killed just this Muppet lost his animal

Now we've had a few others that are curly ones but very few, once again SF is showing up that we should address
We are learning & this SF is not only hammer related

Sorry for the waffle but I thought its important to address where hammers fit in with the above

I dont believe they do as they have the best mechanics across the velocity brackets so where can you get reliable consistent killing from 1800fps impact to unknown impacts across multiple animals / angles / resistances
You can't they are the best

Why do I push hammers !!! simple i like helping people & I love animals & if I can help people eliminate the suffering of a less than ideal performance base of a projectile causing a longer time to death that can be avoided im happy

Under no circumstances are we saying hammers don't kill @ low velocity ( look@ kartil range reports on dead pigs hammers will kill the triangle is supported over all of the above velocities) what the speed demons are saying is just clear your heads & look @ what will potentially kill better ( youve already got the best pill across the board we just want a even better outcome )

If you've read this far I hope you please take the above on board we are not here pushing our own barrow if its a heavy needed im one of the first to point it out ( longrange is not my speciality )
Now for the ones that say I'm doing this for a financial interest
You are gravely mistaken & I will open my books to prove this is not the case
Yes I bring hammer projectiles into Aussie for others but I on sell them @ my cost as if you understood freight & customs / duties which are so costly & time consuming ( i don't take / add a cent for my time only consumables & costs are added ) imagine buying a test pk for around $100 as thats our cost with one box yet i can bring in heaps & we share the costs
I think a bloke in Canada is doing roughly the same by what I've picked up on hammertime ?

Thanks for your time reading & wish you the best in your pursuit of finding your holy grail

Cheers

Thank you for this post, It had some very interesting referrals and comments.

 

[B/2-75]

Other the first two shots could you describe how large the fragments were? How far was the third shot on the liver and were the fragments larger?

Skinned/quartered bull in the field. The largest pieces may have weighed 10-20 grains. The third shot passed through but that was at approx 400 yds. For some clarity, I've been lucky enough to have killed hundreds of big game animals too include the largest on the planet; as I got older and into hand loading I made it a point to thoroughly examine wound/bullet performance when possible…guess the point is not my first time shooting a large animal. My 2¢

 

[xsn10s]

High fragmentation suggests to me a hardness issue. Or possibly stock that had some sort composition issue. It could be just an anomaly and not the norm.

 

[doubledoc]

Great stuff. For those who haven't read it yet, this is a must read: http://www.rathcoombe.net/sci-tech/ballistics/wounding.html It's one of the best pieces of research on what kills and the basis for why Hammer bullets were designed they way they are.

I took the time to read through this fascinating compilation of studies on the components of an effective bullet/load. I hae long been interested in the Impact Velocity vs tissue hydrostatic damage effect. My concern with- especially the early, physiology parts of his article- is his misuse of physiological terms and at times incorect description of the processes of "Death". In my overeducated opionion, most of his conclusions are sound but his discussion on the "killing effect" and mechanisms of lethality are somewhat loosely described, at least to a physician who's spent a lifetime examining wounds, killing, and the mechanisms of death and dying. Still, an excellent work worth recomending. Thanks, William Capps, MD, JD

 

[B/2-75]

On Hammer's website they list min velocity of 1800 fps. They haven't found a max velocity because the bullet is designed to hold up.

From the website: "All of the Hammer Bullets that are designed for hunting are impact tested down to 1800 fps impact velocity for proper deformation. We have not been able to impact a Hammer Bullet at too high of an impact velocity. They will retain the same weight at low and high velocity impacts."

Great..maybe the 260 338 has limits, don't know. Must be an isolated event. Not knocking bullet; thought folks on this site may be interested.

 

[B/2-75]

High fragmentation suggests to me a hardness issue. Or possibly stock that had some sort composition issue. It could be just an anomaly and not the norm.

Agree

 

[snox801]

Once you've tried the hammer bullet it's irrelevant

Yep I'm always shocked when people I tell about hammers try and sell me on Barnes.
Lol I've used them but I've found nothing they do nearly as well as hammers.

 

[jessej]

Eagerly awaiting my hammer delivery.