I'm not familiar with the 14 sized lathes but I did a bunch of research and calling around on the 2x36s before getting the PM. It was a better deal overall. I wished I had a rollered steady rest though. DRO not required for gunsmithing work. It makes things easier but nothing a mag base indicator holder can't do. If you have the money for a 14x though, the DRO is probably a nice add on. I did put a DRO on my tail stock to help with chambering.
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Gunsmith Lathe - Grizzly or Precision Matthews
- Thread starter Kmccord
- Start date
Help Support Long Range Hunting Forum
I compared the 2 brands for years. Here is what I know. PM has a longer warranty IF parts are needed just email or call and you have them within days. PM compared to griz just seems to me a little better quality to details. Also PM pricing are very competitive. Their shipping does a great job a packing and keeping you in loop.
Now as for DRO. YOU better get it now because if you don't you will buy it later guaranteed. Also if you have the option to upgrade motor to bauldor do it the factory PM motors are good but BM is 10xs better (smoother sounds, smoother cuts, not vibrations).
Now here comes the bad part. The lathe is cheap compared to tooling. Ya you can get cheap import tooling but don't. Spend the extra few bucks and get good tool holders, tooling, tool post, chucks, true Bore alignment system, calipers, mics, ect.
There are lots of great quality USED tooling ect on eBay that you can get for smoking deals. I got a dorian tool post for 250.00 that was a demo unit never even on a lathe. Look around and you will find the deals.
Get everything you can on Machine now high end stuff because it's only going to go up in price plus you won't do what I did bought cheap couldn't sell cheap crap so I spent more for the good used stuff. You will not be disappointed in machine and the knowledge you will learn. Even if your gunsmith idea doesn't pan out (like mine) then you still can do other things for cash on machine and still feed your shooting/hunting addiction.
Now as for DRO. YOU better get it now because if you don't you will buy it later guaranteed. Also if you have the option to upgrade motor to bauldor do it the factory PM motors are good but BM is 10xs better (smoother sounds, smoother cuts, not vibrations).
Now here comes the bad part. The lathe is cheap compared to tooling. Ya you can get cheap import tooling but don't. Spend the extra few bucks and get good tool holders, tooling, tool post, chucks, true Bore alignment system, calipers, mics, ect.
There are lots of great quality USED tooling ect on eBay that you can get for smoking deals. I got a dorian tool post for 250.00 that was a demo unit never even on a lathe. Look around and you will find the deals.
Get everything you can on Machine now high end stuff because it's only going to go up in price plus you won't do what I did bought cheap couldn't sell cheap crap so I spent more for the good used stuff. You will not be disappointed in machine and the knowledge you will learn. Even if your gunsmith idea doesn't pan out (like mine) then you still can do other things for cash on machine and still feed your shooting/hunting addiction.
Check out the Hobby Machinist forum. They have a specific PM forum with loads of data. You'll find this exact question asked over there multiple times.
I have a 1340GT 220v and added at DRO and VFD with a proximity stop. I could not be happier. It's plenty of machine for gunsmith work which is really not all that difficult and doesn't require a huge rigid machine. The first few barrels I chambered on a SB10K lathe between centers. That's the old light duty 10". Obviously the more rigid the better and buy as big a machine as you can afford. Remember, most smiths were using the SB Heavy 10 (10L) and it's lighter than the PM 1340GT. I'm talking the old Heavy 10 not the new one.
I've got no experience with the Grizzly but there are lots of gunsmiths using them. They are made in China while the PM GT labeled machines are made in Taiwan. If it doesn't say GT it's made in China.
Someone mentioned Eisen. That's the only one I'd trade up to from my 1340. It's at least double the weight and is highly respected.
<edit>brguide posted just as I did. I will second what he said about tooling. With chucks, toolholders, collets, inserts, etc., I've got more in tooling cost than I do in the lathe.
I have a 1340GT 220v and added at DRO and VFD with a proximity stop. I could not be happier. It's plenty of machine for gunsmith work which is really not all that difficult and doesn't require a huge rigid machine. The first few barrels I chambered on a SB10K lathe between centers. That's the old light duty 10". Obviously the more rigid the better and buy as big a machine as you can afford. Remember, most smiths were using the SB Heavy 10 (10L) and it's lighter than the PM 1340GT. I'm talking the old Heavy 10 not the new one.
I've got no experience with the Grizzly but there are lots of gunsmiths using them. They are made in China while the PM GT labeled machines are made in Taiwan. If it doesn't say GT it's made in China.
Someone mentioned Eisen. That's the only one I'd trade up to from my 1340. It's at least double the weight and is highly respected.
<edit>brguide posted just as I did. I will second what he said about tooling. With chucks, toolholders, collets, inserts, etc., I've got more in tooling cost than I do in the lathe.
DRO isn't mandatory on new machines as your cutting is most always one direction. I have older machines with some wear on the cross-screw, which makes the DRO mandatory if you want to hold .001 without a bunch of chicken cuts.
As mentioned, you can use mag bases/dial indicators- but the DRO is so much faster to use, no setup, and it'll do the math for you.
As mentioned, you can use mag bases/dial indicators- but the DRO is so much faster to use, no setup, and it'll do the math for you.
I ran the lathe for a year without the DRO before I finally installed it. It makes life so much easier. The thing that I like the best and would hate to be without is the proximity stop. No more following the dial to engage the threads and sweating as it approached the headstock. I can run the lathe at full speed screaming toward the headstock and it will stop with .001-.002" every single time.
I'd buy a smaller, cheaper lathe than 1440 just to have money for the VFD, DRO and proximity stop.
I'd buy a smaller, cheaper lathe than 1440 just to have money for the VFD, DRO and proximity stop.
One thing for sure is you can do without for a lot less money. That usually means you spend more time doing things slower. I don't want to go into the business side of things but you can read between the lines and see that at some point, things will have to speed up.
One example for me was to speed up my process by adding a DIY through barrel flush system. That saved me 10x time on cutting chambers.
So my bottom line is, get what you can afford with the best bang for the buck/features you want. Prices of Grizz equipment appears to been increasing more than PM. I'm sure you will be happy with both.
One example for me was to speed up my process by adding a DIY through barrel flush system. That saved me 10x time on cutting chambers.
So my bottom line is, get what you can afford with the best bang for the buck/features you want. Prices of Grizz equipment appears to been increasing more than PM. I'm sure you will be happy with both.
Just for basis I have been a millwright for over 30 years.
If you are just starting machining the lathe is only part of the cost. TOOLING can run into the $$$$$ pretty easy. I have a Clausing lathe built in 1975. I like it a lot I purchased it from a one man shop that was closing his doors and retiring. I also bought a Bridgeport knee mill with servo drives, a Rockwell 18spd drill press and all the tooling for each machine. Including 4 chucks for lathe and collet head. I completely rebuilt it when I first bought it. My lathe is variable speed with the twist of a knob (ie built in VFD). I also bought and installed a new DRO and prox stop. A long time ago I learned to machine manually at a local CC. DRO is a definite step up and saves time not having to creep up on your number and generally easier in my opinion.
In the early 90's I did a gunsmithing course. Got my certificate and thought I would open up a little shop at my house/shop. Checking into licensing etc I found out that I have to carry at minimum 10 million dollars in liability insurance just to open the doors. Uh, NO I was not going to pay that. I went and talked to a local established gun smith who was backed up over a year then and offered to help. I still do to this day is threading and other minor machining work. Its OK I have built lots of rifles over the years, but its like anything else to me you do it enough and it just becomes work.
It sounds like you are passionate about it as well as drive and that is awesome. I wish you all the luck in the world and if you ever have questions feel free to ask...
Good luck...
If you are just starting machining the lathe is only part of the cost. TOOLING can run into the $$$$$ pretty easy. I have a Clausing lathe built in 1975. I like it a lot I purchased it from a one man shop that was closing his doors and retiring. I also bought a Bridgeport knee mill with servo drives, a Rockwell 18spd drill press and all the tooling for each machine. Including 4 chucks for lathe and collet head. I completely rebuilt it when I first bought it. My lathe is variable speed with the twist of a knob (ie built in VFD). I also bought and installed a new DRO and prox stop. A long time ago I learned to machine manually at a local CC. DRO is a definite step up and saves time not having to creep up on your number and generally easier in my opinion.
In the early 90's I did a gunsmithing course. Got my certificate and thought I would open up a little shop at my house/shop. Checking into licensing etc I found out that I have to carry at minimum 10 million dollars in liability insurance just to open the doors. Uh, NO I was not going to pay that. I went and talked to a local established gun smith who was backed up over a year then and offered to help. I still do to this day is threading and other minor machining work. Its OK I have built lots of rifles over the years, but its like anything else to me you do it enough and it just becomes work.
It sounds like you are passionate about it as well as drive and that is awesome. I wish you all the luck in the world and if you ever have questions feel free to ask...
Good luck...
I bought this, PM1440TV, from Matt over at PM. He special ordered it from Taiwan. Not a catalog item on his website.
The same lathe as this Eisen, just different badge with one notable change Matt installed the DRO, a rebadged DRO Pros.
eisenm.com
I have 2 other lathes, an ATrump 1236, and a Jet 1024. The latter, though smallish, is still my go-to lathe. This little guy is very capable. I even thread plunging in with the cross slide.
The same lathe as this Eisen, just different badge with one notable change Matt installed the DRO, a rebadged DRO Pros.
EISEN 1440E 14" x 40" Engine Lathe with DRO, Made in Taiwan, 220V 3PH
-NEW- Eisen 1440E Precision Engine Lathe High quality precision lathe, Made in Taiwan. Features 14" swing x 40" distance between centers Hardened and ground bed ways Hardened and ground gears in headstock D1-4 camlock spindle with 1 9/16" spindle bore Spindle speed up to 2,000 RPM 3 HP main...
eisenm.com
I have 2 other lathes, an ATrump 1236, and a Jet 1024. The latter, though smallish, is still my go-to lathe. This little guy is very capable. I even thread plunging in with the cross slide.
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Kmccord
Well-Known Member
Thank you for the insight, on the insurance you mentioned, what was that part with on Licenses, the FFL or something else?
Chamberman
Well-Known Member
I have been using a Grizzly G0709 14 x 40 for many years now. No complaints. Does everything needed for Chambering.
I'm sure that the other Lathes mentioned are just as good or maybe better, but I am only speaking from a one Lathe experience.
My Lathe will plug into 110V outlet- many others require 220V. This was a huge deciding factor for me.
As said before- the tooling is going to be more expensive than the Lathe.
To me this has been the fun part of the process.
All I wanted to do when I started out was to control the amount of time and choices in a rifle build..... I got tired of waiting on others to complete a custom for me. So I took the dive.
I currently chamber for a firearms manufacturer in my spare time, and I have a new trade/skill for my retirement!
Start off slow, procure your basic tools like, calipers, depth mics, dial indicators, mag tool holders- the list goes on and on. Make sure you spend the money on the good stuff. Browne & Sharpe, Starrett, just to name a couple.
Depending on the set up you will be using- will directly affect your choice of tooling.
I use the Viper set up in my 4 jaw to indicate the barrels so I don't have to use the out board spider. Awesome for chambering.
The Marine Corps armorers use this set up, as well as some of the operator armorers.
You can see his videos on You tube- he takes you through the entire process of chambering, and he sells the video from his website so you can review it for reference.
Just look up on the YouTube website- Chambering video part 1. wmv
His name is Bob Pastor- I highly recommend watching this if you are just starting out!!!
I also highly recommend John L Hinnant's book: THE COMPLETE ILLUSTRATED GUIDE TO PRECISION RIFLE BARREL FITTING.
You can get a copy of this book from Brownells. He is old school. But, the old ways are sometimes the best!
In my opinion, this is THE book you should ABSOLUTELY own for reference and all things chambering PERIOD.
Factually speaking: Before you buy your Lathe, you should purchase this book! Watch Bob's video's as well!!!
REMEMBER ONE OF THE CARDINAL RULES: THERE IS NEVER A HURRY IN A MACHINE SHOP!!
I'm sure that the other Lathes mentioned are just as good or maybe better, but I am only speaking from a one Lathe experience.
My Lathe will plug into 110V outlet- many others require 220V. This was a huge deciding factor for me.
As said before- the tooling is going to be more expensive than the Lathe.
To me this has been the fun part of the process.
All I wanted to do when I started out was to control the amount of time and choices in a rifle build..... I got tired of waiting on others to complete a custom for me. So I took the dive.
I currently chamber for a firearms manufacturer in my spare time, and I have a new trade/skill for my retirement!
Start off slow, procure your basic tools like, calipers, depth mics, dial indicators, mag tool holders- the list goes on and on. Make sure you spend the money on the good stuff. Browne & Sharpe, Starrett, just to name a couple.
Depending on the set up you will be using- will directly affect your choice of tooling.
I use the Viper set up in my 4 jaw to indicate the barrels so I don't have to use the out board spider. Awesome for chambering.
The Marine Corps armorers use this set up, as well as some of the operator armorers.
You can see his videos on You tube- he takes you through the entire process of chambering, and he sells the video from his website so you can review it for reference.
Just look up on the YouTube website- Chambering video part 1. wmv
His name is Bob Pastor- I highly recommend watching this if you are just starting out!!!
I also highly recommend John L Hinnant's book: THE COMPLETE ILLUSTRATED GUIDE TO PRECISION RIFLE BARREL FITTING.
You can get a copy of this book from Brownells. He is old school. But, the old ways are sometimes the best!
In my opinion, this is THE book you should ABSOLUTELY own for reference and all things chambering PERIOD.
Factually speaking: Before you buy your Lathe, you should purchase this book! Watch Bob's video's as well!!!
REMEMBER ONE OF THE CARDINAL RULES: THERE IS NEVER A HURRY IN A MACHINE SHOP!!
Kmccord
Well-Known Member
Thank you for the literature, I have been Goggling on some stuff and never really see the feedback I really want to see, I will definitely check him out. I do know what you mean about not getting in a hurry, once I do have my FFL, I planned to start by using shouldered pre-fit Barrel's. Once I have a few rifles down and are able to turn them over, I will start into getting a lathe. I definitely need to build my shop I had been threatening to do for couple years, but don't need that right off the bat to build using pre-fit's. It is a long process for me, I always start planning year or two prior before getting to that point I want to be at, next year's goals are just FFL and start building with pre-fit's, purchase the tools needed for assembling, action wrenches, barrel vise, etc. Hopefully by the end of next year I will have a shop started, then a Lathe the following year.
Chamberman
Well-Known Member
Great! Best of luck!
Consider this carefully.
Personally, I don't see a market for that service.
No different than nutted prefits- which are usually done by the owner as minimal tooling /investment is needed and its a simple process. Granted, there are those that will take a prefit to a smith but it's not typical.
iME, those that purchase high end actions that are able to use timed/shouldered preftis are sophisticated shooters that will not use a smith.
