Grizzly G4003G Gunsmith’s Lathe Part 1

[FEENIX]

This is like Chevy vs. Ford debate ...

... until the Toyota Tundra (80% US made) came into the picture.





















... stir, stir, stir

 

[SidecarFlip]

This is like Chevy vs. Ford debate ...

... until the Toyota Tundra (80% US made) came into the picture.





















... stir, stir, stir

.......but with a twist because the subject is actually defunct, out of business, no longer exists, except in name and name recognition.

It would be tantamount to Toyota buying the Ford Blue Oval (if Fords ever went bankrupt, highly unlikely) and using the trademark on every Toyota for sight recognition.

Unlike the automotive debates, there are very few American workers involved in bringing imported from China machine tools to American consumers, unlike Toyota and other non-domestic entities who actually have plants on US soil, employ American workers and contribute to the economy.

 

[rscott5028]

I bought a Grizzly 4003g. It has some nice features that made it the best choice for my circumstances. If I was a professional smith, I might've done something different.

My son just shot his first long range competition using a rifle we chambered and fit on this lathe and did very well.

I'm pleased and proud as you will be too.

Any discussion regarding me being un-American is 100% nonsense and not worthy of a response.

-- richard

 

[JFComfort]

Here are some rifles Dane and I have put together. We have really been enjoying learning and working at getting better. We still have a long way to go, we both wish we would have gotten the lathe hooked up with a DRO. Our tooling wish list is long but we are slowly gathering them as we go. Right now for what Dane, Bill and I are doing the Grizzly is getting the job done.

When I was in high school I took metal shop and got to learn a little bit on the lathe. After I had left school they closed down the shop classes and I wish I would have had the foresight and wisdom to buy one of the three lathes the school had.

Remington 700 Short Action
6.5mm Creedmoor
+0.002" head space
Badger Ordnance Recoil Lug
Timney Flat Trigger
McRee Leopard Chassis
Rock Creek 5R 1-8" twist 20" barrel, 5/8x24 tpi @ muzzle
JP Cooley muzzle brake
Elite Iron Bravo D Suppressor
Weaver 2 piece base
Badger Ordnance low 30mm rings
US Optics 1.8-10x37mm SN-3 ERGO
McRee 10 round magazine

(Shown with Nightforce NXS 5.5-22x56mm)

After some "issues" we have the 7mm SAUM all sorted out! The ballistics are very impressive and I feel the 7mm SAUM is a great ELR/ULR rifle cartridge. This rifle is heavy and the 27.5" Heavy Varmint barrel doesn't do us any favors. The 7mm is extremely flat shooting and bucks the wind very well.

Remington 700 Long Action
7mm SAUM
+0.002" head space
Badger Ordnance Recoil Lug
Jewell HVR trigger
McRee Precision Chassis System
Kreiger Heavy Varmint 1-8.5" twist 27.5" barrel, 5/8x24 tpi @ muzzle
JP Cooley muzzle brake
Nightforce 20 MOA base
US Optics low 35mm rings
US Optics SN-3 ERGO 3.8-22x58mm
McRee 5 round magazines

This is my current match rifle.

My match rifle with Delta P. Design 762 Brevis.

Here are some groups;

3, 5 round groups @ 100 yards each from a different shooter. Top left was mine, top right was Dane and the bottom group was shot by Byron.

The after 1,800 rounds the Rock Creek MTU's were shooting great but they were slow! The group on the left was mine and the group on the right is Dane's. Both were shot at 100 yards.

After setting back the MTU I shot this 7 round group at 550 yards

 

[SidecarFlip]

There were some tremendous buys in high and vocational school machines around 10 years ago. Most schools discontinued their vocational training programs because of insurance issues and lack of participation by students. I bet that some serious investigation on your part would uncover some good buys even today.

That's where I bought the LeBlond, from a high school shop. It was used little and very, very well tooled and I got it for basically scrap price. I also bought a very lightly used Minster OBI tryout, 5 ton centrufigal press.

The issue with bigger machines is the rigging to move, especially from inside a school building. I wound up removing as much of the machine as possible in parts, then pulling the bed out with a high low, reassembling the machine in my shop. You need some serious road equipment to haul the stuff. A pickup bed don't work, or a U-haul trailer and you better know about load securement.

Refitting a DRO is a simple and not too expensive matter on any machine. For under 1500 bucks and some time, you can fit a 3 axis IP54 glass scale encoder/readout unit that will be accurate to 0.0005, much better than your machine is capable of.

 

[wwaggoner]

Common practice in the 300+ rifle barrels I've threaded and chambered thru the head stock have all had copper or lead protectng the barrel in spider and 4-jaw.

BTW except for a couple dozen done back in the 70s on a 20 year old SBL (flat ways) all my work done on on Tiawanese or ChiCom lathes, including Grizzly, a comany that supports their customers..All a little rough but easily smoothed up, leveled and adjusted to kill a 10thou indicator.

If I could justify it a Mori Seki would be my choice. Be nice to buy a good American lathe and mill. EPA, OSSA and unions killed that so buy the best lathe you can afford!

(Quote)
I woud suggest to find another use for the copper stranded wire that is protecting the barrel in your picture. Common and accepted practice is to use soft jaw caps of a known thickness to prevent marring of a finish.

I like to shoot and exercise my Second Amendment right to bear arms, especially long range rifles, which, is why I'm here in the first place. This forum is a great place to learn and while I'm fairly ancient, I can still learn and adapt.

Finally, my take on unions is simply that if it weren't for organized labor, the fringe benefits that most workers receive today in an industrial setting would never have come about. Having said that, I'm on the fence considering unions today, especially a closed shop. I believe it's the workers right to choose representation rather than be

Enjoy your Chinese lathe. If it serves your needs and fits your budget, that's all one can ask.

I merely wanted to point out the what if rather than the obvious.[/QUOTE]

 

[SidecarFlip]

"BTW except for a couple dozen done back in the 70s on a 20 year old SBL (flat ways)"............

South Bend Lathe Company never built a lathe with flat ways. They were all prismatic Vee ways (one of SBL's hallmark selling points BTW). You have your brands mixed up. Maybe you refer to Logan or Atlas or an early Sheldon.

The only detraction in a flat way machine has to do with the tailstock. Flat ways, because the tailstock locates on the inside vertical surface of the ways, on long center to center turning, the tailstock can (if not gibbed properly) can 'fishtail', causing the centerline to become skewed.

Grizzly's guarantee is much like the current oiptics guarantee. If a machine is defective, it's cheaper to discard it and provide another because the markup is so great. Machines built in third world countries and sold domestically can be replaced without question because the build labor is so cheap.

 

[Trickymissfit]

I always wondered what that clowns first name was......

Glad he helped you. I wouldn't buy a sack of rotten potatoes from them or him.

Just keep in mind that when you purchase anything from them you increase the trade imbalance, you prostiture American workers and you further his agenda.

Far as I'm concerned he and his company are a *** for the above reasons and a whole lot more.

I had an engineer buy six of their heavyduty lathes on a spot buy at work. They all came in at the sametime, and all went back home at the sametime. He then bought the Southwest Trac's, and after two wrecks and two junked machines they fired his butt. Problem is that nobody except Colechester is making a seriously good engine lathe anymore with at least a 10" chuck. The best current hand lathe out there is a Hardingh second operation machine, and it's too small for barrel work. The best ever made was the Monarch Series "EE", and people don't get rid of them.
gary

 

[Trickymissfit]

Who would you buy a sack of rotten potatoes from?

Besides that, your post has nothing to do with gunsmithing and is nothing more than a rant that comes rather close to what is not allowed on this board.

Stop right there! Let me tell you something about "Flip"! He's a machinest from the old school, and is also pretty damned good at what he does. We've had quite a few conversations over the years, and often compaired notes. I've come to trust his data. So where do I come from? I'm a machine builder. I specialized in machine centers, but have done all too many turning machines in my lifetime. Plus gear cutting equipment and grinders. Even robotics. I kinda think by now I know machinery, and made a living at undoing junk equipment.
Plus I call a spade when I see a spade.
gary

 

[Trickymissfit]

I need to add to "Flips" previous post. The Senior Vice Presidents of Engineering and manufacturing at Warner Swasey left the company in the very late 1970's. The started a little company called Bardens & Oliver, and their first lathe was a dupicate of the W&S #5 turret lathe. There was a huge market for that particular model at the time, folks that owned them kept them up. Turns out that all the patterns and such were right from W&S. They're built over here. Later these guys get the same deal for the much sought after W&S chuckers and the CNC chuckers. We bought five or six of them, and placed them right beside the W&S #2AS cnc chuckers. Same quality and finish.

Monarch Sidney was bought up by Makino years back. They were the Cadillac of engine lathes when they sold out. I think Monarch Cortland is still the old company (last time I heard), but all the made was vertical machine centers.. Sidney did a horizontal machine center that was surprisingly accurate. But also not with out issues. Still a better machine than it's Jap counterparts by a mile or two.

I think G&L still has a line of CNC lathes (all slant bed), and at one time did make an engine lathe. Their big thing is machine centers and FMS systems. What put them over the top was when they bought up K&T. K&T was the top dog in the world of FMS systems by a wide margin. But also had a lot of cash flow issues.

In the world of machine centers the best was a Devlieg out of Michigan. Sip also did one that was claimed to be about .0002" more accurate in two feet of travel. A lie! People that own Devliegs hang onto them, and keep them up. They are a legitimate two tenths machine on a bad day!

Probably the only good stuff comming out of Japan these days is Okuma and Okamoto. The rest is suspect and has cost more than one man his job for even buying it. Mitsubishi makes a fairly good gear grinder, but nothing like an Okamoto or a MAAG. Gleason has literally killed off the rest of the business in gear cutting. Nothing will run with a Gleason period!

Now for the $64K answer! The best CNC lathe made anywhere is a Hardingh. Always back ordered for a reason. It's a solid five tenths or less machine, and I've seen the smaller versions run in the two and a half tenth range all day long. The others won't come close to that. Plus it'll stay together with a feed rate of 24" a minute if your brave enough! Lodge was the last one to make that claim.
gary

 

[SidecarFlip]

I merely rebutted the statement about SBL and flat ways. SBL never produced a machine with flat ways and like Gary, I prefer domestic machines for 2 reasons, one, they are typically overbuilt (especially in the case of a Monarch EE series) and they were made in America by American craftsmen, not in some shop across the pond in the land of rice-a-roni.

We already have an unstainable trade deficit with China, why perpetuate it with more trade imbalance when used American made machines are still available and can be brought to rerasonable tolerance machining with a little time and refurbishing.

I don't do business with Balola and Grizzly just for the above reason\, but then, I have the knowledge and capabilities of refurbishing used machine tools, it's a labor of love with me.

Monarch was made in Sidney Ohio btw.

People in this country need to wake up to the fact that the end game will have you eating with chopsticks and be gunless as well.

Gary and I will never succumb to that premise, not now, not later.

No rant intended bub, just facts.

Made in China or Taiwan or India or any Pacific Rim country has no place in my shop and never will.

 

[Pdvdh]

I believe first and foremost to buy American at all times possible, to support my country and it's workers because I'm still proud to be an American and I still believe this is the greatest country in the world. Do you?

If you feel that's crap, why don't you immigrate to China and see first hand just what living there is all about.

I said my piece. You can absorb it and benefit from it or you can blow it off. Your choice, your freedom, for now.

You've completely hijacked this Thread, taken it in the direction of your pleasing, all in order to "force your piece" on the OP and other Forum members. Pretty darn selfish. In some ways, doesn't seem much different than the man you're so critical of. You might consider initiating your own thread? So we can all determine if we care to read about your opinions on the history of Lathe manufacturers and can then determine whether or not to invest the time - having been respectfully informed.

Perhaps the OP will be willing to change the title of his Thread at this point in time, in order to identify this Thread as the discussion of the affects of world wide manufacturing and business competition on the United States of America.

Start a Thread of your own, and then there should be no problem with your "posting your piece" to your heart's content. Unless Len decides you've posted for the purpose of bashing someone's business.

 

[geargrinder]

You've completely hijacked this Thread, taken it in the direction of your pleasing, all in order to "force your piece" on the OP and other Forum members. Pretty darn selfish. In some ways, doesn't seem much different than the man you're so critical of. You might consider initiating your own thread? So we can all determine if we care to read about your opinions on the history of Lathe manufacturers and can then determine whether or not to invest the time - having been respectfully informed.

Perhaps the OP will be willing to change the title of his Thread at this point in time, in order to identify this Thread as the discussion of the affects of world wide manufacturing and business competition on the United States of America.

Start a Thread of your own, and then there should be no problem with your "posting your piece" to your heart's content. Unless Len decides you've posted for the purpose of bashing someone's business.

+1

Well said.

 

[SidecarFlip]

Hijack, smijack.

The title of the thread is and I quote..."Grizzly G400G3 Gunsmith's Lathe". Now unless I mistaken, the thread title is about a Grizzly machine, more specifically, a Chinese machnine.

If yoiu have issues being an American and purchasing Ameriucan products, I suggest you move offshore to one of the countries you embrace...if they will have you.

If I farted in your Rice Krispies, so be it.

Get a life for God sakes.

There are some of us here that are proud to be Ameriicans, even under the current regime.

Finally, Gary and I have more knowledge about machine shop discipline and what
works and what don't in our little toenais that you have in your entirety.

I'll remove this thread from my notifications so that you may continue on, unabated and unfettered by anything resembling patriotism and loyalty to American workers and their products.... You probably have a Longevity welder too.

Have at it, I'm outta here.