Great discussion.

[Huntnful]

Here's a good question. 2 guys want to go elk hunting with you in the morning. You know your shooting situation is going to be 400-600 yards out in an AG field.

One guy has a 9lb 6 PRC. Shooting 109 ELDM's at 3300fps. He's on his second barrel of the year from practicing so much. He's got excellent drop data out past 1000 yards.

Second guy has an 8lb 338 Lapua. He has absolutely no recoil management and has been to the range one time to sight in his rifle with 3 shots. He says he good to 600 no problem.

Which one you picking to actually kill the animal?

 

[willfrye027]

Here's a good question. 2 guys want to go elk hunting with you in the morning. You know your shooting situation is going to be 400-600 yards out in an AG field.

One guy has a 9lb 6 PRC. Shooting 109 ELDM's at 3300fps. He's on his second barrel of the year from practicing so much. He's got excellent drop data out past 1000 yards.

Second guy has an 8lb 338 Lapua. He has absolutely no recoil management and has been to the range one time to sight in his rifle with 3 shots. He says he good to 600 no problem.

Which one you picking to actually kill the animal?

3rd guy is watching this go down from just across the fence on public. Lapua guy flinches and misses, elk runs across the fence to public. 3rd guy puts an 88eld behind the shoulder and kills the elk.

Lapua guy walk over, looks at the wound, and proclaims "yep that's my elk, look at the size of the hole through him!"

 

[E4aker]

That's a loaded question….anybody that id hunt with has a proper elk rifle and knows how to use it.

I'm 100% against 6mm for elk. I've been a part of way too many elk kills to be convinced otherwise.

 

[fta0303]

IMO it's not meaningless or irrelevant what so ever. An arrow simply causes FAR LESS damage than a bullet, and kills extremely effectively. You don't fall on bullets. They hit you at 3000fps. That's a ridiculous statement to even make a comparison like that between falling on an arrow and falling on a bullet???

No matter how it causes it. It is so unrealistic to say that the slice of the blades creates some magical wound that for some reason a bullet can't compare to in any way and that you can't compare their effectiveness in any aspects.

All I'm saying is an arrow kills extremely effectively. 1" fixed blades kill thousands of animals. That wound is 1" x 1/8" slice. Literally zero damage outside that area.

A proper, small caliber bullet is 4" around of shredded tissue. So roughly 32X more damage in the same area. Thinking that that arrow is more lethal because it made a cut, vs. a literal 4" tunnel of decimated tissue is just so absurd to me. I just can't fathom the thinking honestly.

Exit from an arrow
View attachment 581607
Exit from a bullet
View attachment 581608

In what world is the first picture more lethal because it has clean cuts?

No one in their right mind would rather get shot in the chest with a 6mm frangible bullet, than stabbed 1 time with a 1" knife.

The arrow seems like it would behave pretty uniformly from animal to animal, given the same hit. Not so the typical rifle bullet, which can range from explosion on contact to pencilling through. The arrow's mass is about an ounce, like a big 458 or 475 bullet, which if hard cast and flat nosed will make wound channel similar in size to what you show for an arrow, and will produce pretty uniform results. Animal response to similar rifle bullet strikes must explain any differences in observed post-strike behavior. I saw one deer shot with an -06 at 150 yards behind the shoulder, it did a back flip, got to its knees when it was shot again, which ended it. That back flip must have been some sort of large nervous twitch, maybe shock due to striking the rib cage. There is myoglobin in muscle tissue which might fuel a significant death run even if the heart is destroyed. Why one runs and another doesn't is a mystery to me. The strike velocity vs animal size has an effect on shock effects.

 

[Barehandlineman11]

You guys let me know what states and units your hunting elk with 22 & 6 creedmoors. I wouldn't mind hunting 3 legged elk with my lapua.

 

[Huntnful]

That's a loaded question….anybody that id hunt with has a proper elk rifle and knows how to use it.

I'm 100% against 6mm for elk. I've been a part of way too many elk kills to be convinced otherwise.

Understable. And yes it is a loaded question. But hunter number 2 is your average hunter. Totally uneducated. Shooting a 338 because of it's "knockdown power". Just because he's shooting a big gun doesn't mean anything for his success in the field.

I am certain you aren't hunting with your average hunter/shooter. So why would you want to pick someone shooting small caliber if you didn't have too.

But if you go into the woods for a week with the general public during a general season, I bet you see 9 hunter #2's for every 1 hunter #1. The only way level up hunter #2 is to get them shooting more. And smaller cartridges and calibers help with that immensely.

 

[Alex Wheeler]

I make a custom 6mm bullet. I want to sell them. But not to elk hunters. Its a great target bullet and also a good bullet on medium game.

 

[fta0303]

Here's a good question. 2 guys want to go elk hunting with you in the morning. You know your shooting situation is going to be 400-600 yards out in an AG field.

One guy has a 9lb 6 PRC. Shooting 109 ELDM's at 3300fps. He's on his second barrel of the year from practicing so much. He's got excellent drop data out past 1000 yards.

Second guy has an 8lb 338 Lapua. He has absolutely no recoil management and has been to the range one time to sight in his rifle with 3 shots. He says he good to 600 no problem.

Which one you picking to actually kill the animal?

A couple of guys wandered into our deer camp. Talk went on, like it will. One of them spent some pretty vibrant cuss words on his .270, which he thought was *** because the elk he shot with it refused to go down after multiple shots. Everyone else silently reflected that this guy either doesn't know where to shoot the animal, or couldn't hit it with his 270. He wanted a 338, we thought silently, yah, that'll fix the problem...

 

[Barehandlineman11]

Get right tool for job then learn too use it

 

[Huntnful]

6mm /.243 hunting success on Big Game

Looks like reports of Tikka .243 Win with 8” twist barrels is true! Anyone going to grab one and rechamber to 243 AI or 6mm Rem AI?

rokslide.com

Literally hundreds of elk, moose and african game. Full necropsies as well.

Of course everyone is entitled to their self imposed limitations and beliefs. I have my own self imposed limits as well. But I still enjoy seeing stuff like this and can actually accept what is being presented with an open mind. Actual data. Not word of mouth here say. Video's and photos, for you to make your own judgments.

I DON'T EVEN HUNT WITH A 6MM lol

I've killed almost all of my animals with large 30 cals and large 7mm's. It's not like I'm even defending my own choices .

 

[Earnhardt]

Huntnful,
just curious…how long have you been shooting, and what is your age?
Thanks

 

[E4aker]

Get right tool for job then learn too use it

Exactly….maybe cut a few luxuries out of the pack and substitute it for heavier rifle. I won't compromise on glass or my rifle…period.

My teenage girls shoot a 300 nmi and can spot their own impacts at 400yds.

The men country has gotten soft. Its carrying over into the hunting community.

 

[Huntnful]

Huntnful,
just curious…how long have you been shooting, and what is your age?
Thanks

I'm 34, and I've been shooting and killing stuff since I was a kid. I was big into waterfowl for a stint, but for the last 6 years have been solely focused on big game. I've averaged 100 days in the field every year since and I think taken right around 40 big game animals in the last 6 years with archery and rifle.

 

[Earnhardt]

I'm 34, and I've been shooting and killing stuff since I was a kid. I was big into waterfowl for a stint, but for the last 6 years have been solely focused on big game. I've averaged 100 days in the field every year since and I think taken right around 40 big game animals in the last 6 years with archery and rifle.

How many big game animals did you take prior to six years ago, (2018)?
Thanks