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JimFromTN said:
That was 2019. The only thing that keeps it from being cheaper today is supply issues. Budweiser did a test run 6 years ago with a driverless truck. I imagine the technology has evolved dramatically in the last 6 years. We now have cars on the road today where people sleep while the car drives them to work. They are not supposed to do it but they do. Elon Musk is predicted to be the worlds first trillionaire by 2024. He would not be investing in it if he did not think he would make money. You are correct about teamsters but Amazon doesn't use teamsters or at least not yet. Even though Bezos and Musk supposedly don't get along, amazon is the natural first choice for driverless electric trucks and when they start using them and their profits skyrocket even more, the rest of the non unionized carries will take notice. New carrier companies that use driverless electric trucks could easily start popping up everywhere.

This is all futuristic predictions that may never come to pass but based on the rapid advancement in technology and where we are at today, it certainly seems plausible in the not so distant future.
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Well no way Elon makes it to trillion status with ole Joey runni g the ship into a iceberg.
Tesla stock tanking and spending going down.
Not to mention the shear inflation will drive the cost of that truck up. Not necessarily supply. Put money printed dollars in the others are worth less.
I actually have a friend who works at Tesla and let's just say those trucks are not gonna be what they claim. Maybe a few years but not soon.
Sell me a green car because it's simply better not because the government forces me to.
 
snox801 said:
Well no way Elon makes it to trillion status with ole Joey runni g the ship into a iceberg.
Tesla stock tanking and spending going down.
Not to mention the shear inflation will drive the cost of that truck up. Not necessarily supply. Put money printed dollars in the others are worth less.
I actually have a friend who works at Tesla and let's just say those trucks are not gonna be what they claim. Maybe a few years but not soon.
Sell me a green car because it's simply better not because the government forces me to.
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Allot smarter people than you and I made the prediction. Joey is not going to punish the people who are the driving force behind making America green. Also, for tax purposes, Elon musk only makes $70k a year. The government is not making anyone drive electric vehicles. It's your beloved free market that is driving this and the high price of fuel is not hurting the future of the market. It's the perfect storm. First you have supply chain issues followed by truckers striking over vaccinations followed by outrageous fuel prices. I imagine there are people working around the clock to get electric trucks on the road and if you throw in driverless, it's perfect because companies don't have to worry about paying drivers or dealing with unions. The human factor gets in the way of making money. It's a different scale but Uber has made it perfectly clear that as soon as they can go driverless, they are getting rid of their drivers. I could easily see Amazon go electric and eventually go driverless as soon as the technology is there.
 
JimFromTN said:
Allot smarter people than you and I made the prediction. Joey is not going to punish the people who are the driving force behind making America green. Also, for tax purposes, Elon musk only makes $70k a year. The government is not making anyone drive electric vehicles. It's your beloved free market that is driving this and the high price of fuel is not hurting the future of the market. It's the perfect storm. First you have supply chain issues followed by truckers striking over vaccinations followed by outrageous fuel prices. I imagine there are people working around the clock to get electric trucks on the road and if you throw in driverless, it's perfect because companies don't have to worry about paying drivers or dealing with unions. The human factor gets in the way of making money. It's a different scale but Uber has made it perfectly clear that as soon as they can go driverless, they are getting rid of their drivers. I could easily see Amazon go electric and eventually go driverless as soon as the technology is there.
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Well as usual you are wrong. First they are already after Elon with the irs and sec.
And very much no the free market is not. Electric cars are subsidized, also yes that market is growing but not at the rate you think. I'm a car guy I have 9 currently. Why if the ev market is under 10 percent would the big three be doing over 50 percent in ev's in the near future. Oh wait that right because an unelected agency the epa is making it impossible for the ICE to meet emissions.
So Jim you have some points on other stuff but you are so wrong on this. Ask your self where would the ev market be if the government didn't pay for it? Or be if the epa was t making insanely hard emissions?
That's not the free market.
Second those same people you claim are so much smarter than us also believed that thernos, Enron, and a whole laundry list of other markets would take off.
I believe ev should stand on its own in a true free market. If they are better they will have no problem. But they are not. Yet.
I'm not against driverless either.
 
Also just wanna point out Jim you are even wrong on Elon's 70k a year. He just paid more taxes than any human. It was something like 11 billion I believe. Sure sounds about right for dems math 70k with a 11 billion tax bill.
Yes this is new but my point is as you try to get a few points on me about ev's you where just wrong about all of it.
 
snox801 said:
Also just wanna point out Jim you are even wrong on Elon's 70k a year. He just paid more taxes than any human. It was something like 11 billion I believe. Sure sounds about right for dems math 70k with a 11 billion tax bill.
Yes this is new but my point is as you try to get a few points on me about ev's you where just wrong about all of it.
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You really should not take yourself so seriously. I think people are becoming annoyed. Then again, maybe its me they are annoyed with. The $70k was an exaggeration all in good fun I was messing with you, The reason he is paying that much in taxes is because his stock options are set to expire and if he wants to exercise them then he needs to pay capital gains. Up until 2021, Musk paid 27% tax rate which means his declared household income was somewhere around $200k. I was off by $130k. I am so sorry for the discrepancy (this is sarcasm just in case thats not clear). Also, unless something has changed, the capitol gains tax rate is 20% on anything over $500k. So he is paying the same tax rate on billions he was paid in stock options as someone who makes around $80k. When you combine this with the tax rate he has been paying on his "income", I paid a higher tax rate than Elon even after he pays his $11 billion but for some reason, I am not worth $250 billion. And by the way, he would be paying it regardless of who the president is.

Also, why is the SEC after Musk? Wasn't he charged by the SEC not that long ago of making false statements about funding to drive up the price of his stock? For some reason, the SEC wants a lawyer to approve all of his tweets which Musk is trying to get out of now. This all took place in 2018. I am not real sure but I don't think Joey was in office at the time. Apparently, he also made a few mistakes recently regarding his purchase of twitter.
 
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snox801 said:
Well as usual you are wrong. First they are already after Elon with the irs and sec.
And very much no the free market is not. Electric cars are subsidized, also yes that market is growing but not at the rate you think. I'm a car guy I have 9 currently. Why if the ev market is under 10 percent would the big three be doing over 50 percent in ev's in the near future. Oh wait that right because an unelected agency the epa is making it impossible for the ICE to meet emissions.
So Jim you have some points on other stuff but you are so wrong on this. Ask your self where would the ev market be if the government didn't pay for it? Or be if the epa was t making insanely hard emissions?
That's not the free market.
Second those same people you claim are so much smarter than us also believed that thernos, Enron, and a whole laundry list of other markets would take off.
I believe ev should stand on its own in a true free market. If they are better they will have no problem. But they are not. Yet.
I'm not against driverless either.
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So you are saying that the reason for the dedicating 50% of their manufacturing is all because of Joe Biden. Why not 100% if they can't meet the impossible standards. Apparently, they must be making some gas powered vehicles. I have not heard of any of the big manufacturers discontinuing their fossil fuel powered full sized trucks. Ford announced it had an electric truck in May of 2021 but would not be selling it until 2022. Thats 4 months after Biden took office. If you think about it, developing an electric truck from the ground up in 4 months is impressive. Of course, everyone says Biden and the democrats will be gone in 2024. Why would they bother investing billions in something that is only going to last a couple more years before gas prices plummet to $1 a gallon and everyone goes back to their gas guzzlers? Don't these billion dollar companies know to look past the end of their noses? My god, someone would think there is more to it like some kind of writing on the wall than evil Joey making everyone go green but that is ridiculous.
 
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Snox, you remind me of a friend of mine. He is 8 years older than me. Back in the last year or 2 of the Obama administration, he was having health issues and he was wanting to early retire. His wife still worked and made good money but he wanted to help out by cashing out a 401k he had $50,000 in and pay off their house. He was at the age that he would not have to pay a penalty. So he cashed it out and paid off his house. At tax time, not only did he have to pay the taxes on it but it put him and his wife into a higher tax bracket so they had to pay more taxes on the income they earned. I think he had to write a check for $30,000 to the IRS. Do you know who he blamed? He blamed Obama. Funny, I remember when I got my first 401k back in the early 90's, they told us that since we were putting untaxed income into our retirement accounts, we would have to pay taxe on it when we withdrew it from those accounts. For some reason, I am thinking that is the way its been since 401k's were created, but it was Obama's fault that he had to pay taxes on his 401k.
 
JimFromTN said:
Snox, you remind me of a friend of mine. He is 8 years older than me. Back in the last year or 2 of the Obama administration, he was having health issues and he was wanting to early retire. His wife still worked and made good money but he wanted to help out by cashing out a 401k he had $50,000 in and pay off their house. He was at the age that he would not have to pay a penalty. So he cashed it out and paid off his house. At tax time, not only did he have to pay the taxes on it but it put him and his wife into a higher tax bracket so they had to pay more taxes on the income they earned. I think he had to write a check for $30,000 to the IRS. Do you know who he blamed? He blamed Obama. Funny, I remember when I got my first 401k back in the early 90's, they told us that since we were putting untaxed income into our retirement accounts, we would have to pay taxe on it when we withdrew it from those accounts. For some reason, I am thinking that is the way its been since 401k's were created, but it was Obama's fault that he had to pay taxes on his 401k.
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I pay at least that much every year. I blame them all not just one.
However to the question yes they are doing 50 percent based on ever increasing standards from epa and the vast amount of government money to push them to it?
Ev's still make up a very small segment and the percent of people that are even willing to try an ev is lower than 50 percent. Why would they make 50 percent of the cars ev when less than 20 percent of people are even interested in them? I for one can not have one based on my mileage I drive per day. So I simply can't. I live some of the feature of the ford lighting for sure but it is being pushed by the government.
Case in point the hellcat is very profitable for dodge but the epa says 2023 is the last year. Seems that is the government overriding the consumers wants.
 
shortgrass said:
Time to ignore this thread entirely......... Maybe ignore this forum entirely, as there's not much useful content posted here anymore.
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Forums is still great just avoid this thread. Lots of threads I avoid because of that. This one is snowballing that way.
Although I do enjoy the back and forth with Jim. And I'm sure he does also or we both would have stopped already.
 

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