GAP talked my buddy out of a 300 RUM

[McMillan]

One thing I neglected to consider. Apparently the purchaser was going to use or at least was considering a suppressor. In that case I agree the recoil may have been close to unmanageable. Having shot 50 caliber rifles with muzzle breaks and with suppressors, the latter does little to reduce any recoil. I probably would have suggested a lesser caliber under the same circumstances.

 

[McMillan]

Again, I contend the user's application of the rifle is being overlooked. Is a 7 1/2 lb rifle as accurate in the hands of the average hunter for purposes of connecting on game at 1000 yds as a 10 lb rifle? First is the lighter contoured and lighter weight rifle going to be as accurate. Secondly, in the hands of the average hunter, which rifle will be piloted to a higher level of accuracy........

I guarantee that my 7lb 12oz Outdoorsman rifle is every bit as accurate as my 11 lb Long Range Hunter. We build every single rifle we build as if it were a bench rest rifle, as I am sure those gun builders who hang out here do as well. When hunting at long range the only thing that counts is where that first round, and possibly the second round goes. The weight of the rifle or the contour of the barrel (within reason)has little or nothing to do with accuracy. What I will say is that a heavier rifle is easier to shoot as a general rule but not necessarily more accurate.

About muzzle breaks, I honestly can't remember whether it kicked up dust all over the place, I was focused on the elk and preparing for the second shot if necessary. I will admit I wear a pair of EAR electronic hearing protection which allows me to turn them up to be able to hear while in the field and shuts down from the blast of the shot. Just being prudent.

 

[Pdvdh]

I guarantee that my 7lb 12oz Outdoorsman rifle is every bit as accurate as my 11 lb Long Range Hunter.

The claim that a 7 lb 12 oz rifle will be every bit as accurate as an 11 lb rifle is a unique and novel claim, based on my reading, research, and personal experiences. I'm glad that you're able to accomplish that with the McMillan line of rifles.

I won't pretend to speak on behalf of 'those gun builders that hang out here', but I can state that over the past six years and 8 months of hanging out here, I've read quite a few posts from gun builders on this Forum to the effect that 'optimally adding 3 lbs 4 oz of weight to a 7 lb 12 oz rifle that's chambered with a high powered cartridge intended to kill big game at 1000 yds will more often than not result in a rifle with a beefed up action and larger contoured barrel that will have the accuracy advantage over the lighter weight rifle'.

Lighter contoured barrels require more load development effort to find their best available accuracy, in my experience. The thinner the tube and longer the barrel, the greater the quantity of load development and range time required to realize the barrel/rifle's maximum potential. That in itself will often serve to decrease the accuracy realized out of a rifle with a lightweight barrel, compared to a rifle with a heavier contour barrel.

 

[WildRose]

Again, I contend the user's application of the rifle is being overlooked. Is a 7 1/2 lb rifle as accurate in the hands of the average hunter for purposes of connecting on game at 1000 yds as a 10 lb rifle? First is the lighter contoured and lighter weight rifle going to be as accurate. Secondly, in the hands of the average hunter, which rifle will be piloted to a higher level of accuracy at 1000 yds.

Not picking fights. Just providing differing use scenarios and how those should be considered prior to reaching final determinations as to 'the best cartridge'.

Well the "average hunter" can't hit an elephant broadside at 500yds much less a deer or even elk at 1,000yds no matter what they are carrying.

 

[WildRose]

Easy decision, get one of each!


I agree with Kirby that there is no replacement for horsepower. I also agree with George in that there is no replacement for practice. All of my personal rifles are setup exactly the same way so the feel is the same no matter what rifle I get behind from my match rifles to hunting rifles. The recoil might change, but practice forces you to learn conditions. Obviously a 308 is going to be drastically different than a 300RUM in terms of ballistics, but the 308 forces you to know exactly what the wind is doing at all ranges. Thankfully my range of rifles is all pretty close on ballistics....the spread is about 1moa of windage at 1k among them. Brakes just make thing more pleasant to shoot. I (and alot of others including George and Kirby) run them on just about everything we have from 243's on up. Its not so much about recoil, its about recovering and staying on your target. Yup, there is alot of blast.....Yup a guy needs to wear hearing protection(which you should be anyway). The benefits do outweigh the downsides of brakes IMHO. The difference between a 7WSM with 180's and a 300RUM with 210's isn't that much at 1k, but it is a difference, with the performance going to the RUM. Recoil in a braked RUM or WSM is next to nothing and just not a concern. Both can be made to be extremely accurate. The RUM does suffer from poor barrel life, but that is the price of performance. That is why I build so many duplicate setups in smaller calibers for guys so they can shoot all year, then switch over to the big gun and never miss a beat.

There really isn't a wrong choice here. Just have to understand the differences and pick whats best for you. Its hard to have a "one gun does it all" rifle with a compromise somewhere.

Well said. I think there's a hell of a lot of misinformation about muzzle brakes being spouted all over the internet.

Yes some of them are utterly brutal with both the noise and the blast wave they generate.

However there are a number of models available that do not increase noise for the shooter or anyone directly beside or behind them and many that are side/top discharge only that will greatly reduce dusting.

I have a factory brake (soon to be replaced) on my 7mm STW that is absolutely brutal noise/blast wise and marginal at best at reducing muzzle flip and felt recoil.

I also have a Shrewd Varmint brake that is just a pleasure to shoot and virtually eliminates dusting.

On my Rum there is a Gentry Quiet brake which reduces muzzle flip and recoil dramatically and is exceptionally easy on my ears, but it's a 360 deg discharge so it's not particularly appropriate for prone shooting.

I like to shoot, hell I shoot usually at least four or five days a week and be it game or varmints I'm shooting critters of some sort just as often and muzzle brakes simply make shooting these rifles a much more enjoyable experience all the way around.

 

[Pdvdh]

Well the "average hunter" can't hit an elephant broadside at 500yds much less a deer or even elk at 1,000yds no matter what they are carrying.

And your comment contributes to this thread how? Do you require further clarification and further definition of all the other words I typed in my Post also? Substitute 'average long range hunter' since this Forum is entitled Long Range Hunting - if that helps. Substitute 'average extended long range hunter' if that helps you to comprehend my communication of information. Substitute the 'average life long, seasoned, practiced, and experienced extended long range hunter' if that assists your comprehension. Or just revert back to 'average hunter' if any or all of these three additional options leave you even more confused.

 

[WildRose]

And your comment contributes to this thread how? Do you require further clarification and further definition of all the other words I typed in my Post also? Substitute 'average long range hunter' since this Forum is entitled Long Range Hunting - if that helps. Substitute 'average extended long range hunter' if that helps you to comprehend my communication of information. Substitute the 'average life long, seasoned, practiced, and experienced extended long range hunter' if that assists your comprehension. Or just revert back to 'average hunter' if any or all of these these three additional options leave you even more confused.

How did it contribute? Well unlike your comment it was accurate.

I'm also quite sure that for those with a sense of humor it generated at least a grin if not a chuckle.

 

[Pdvdh]

How did it contribute? Well unlike your comment it was accurate.

I'm also quite sure that for those with a sense of humor it generated at least a grin if not a chuckle.

Hello???

I'm an average long range hunter and your Post is once again, inaccurate, in my opinion. If your Post was intended to be humorous, I'm sorry that I missed the humor.

Prior to casting judgement on accurate versus inaccurate posting of information, you might consider revisiting your repetitively erroneous, misleading, and inaccurate information within this Thread:
http://www.longrangehunting.com/for...levation-right-always-right-76779/index3.html

And in this Thread, you could correct your erroneous Post to correctly state that rain doesn't affect the trajectory of supersonic bullets:
http://www.longrangehunting.com/forums/f17/rains-affect-82426/

And in this Thread you inaccurately Posted "Was the humidity higher as well? That will increase resistance and thus your drop as well if it was."
http://www.longrangehunting.com/forums/f17/where-did-i-go-wrong-81128/
Upon which I sent you a PM in the effort to encourage you to correct your confusing, inaccurate Post with the following information.

"If the humidity increases and all other factors remain constant, then the density of the air decreases, which decreases resistance. Would be good to correct your post so as to not confuse. I know it seems counter-intuitive, but it is true. The more moisture, the less dense the air."


Said I wasn't picking a fight. Never said I wasn't up to it.


Oh, and I almost forgot this Thread, where you contend over and over again that the Hornady Amax is unfit for purposes of long range hunting. Now there's something that is both inaccurate AND humorous:
http://www.longrangehunting.com/forums/f17/hornady-max-61617/index3.html

 

[WildRose]

Hello???

I'm an average long range hunter and your Post is once again, inaccurate, in my opinion. If your Post was intended to be humorous, I'm sorry that I missed the humor.

Prior to casting judgement on accurate versus inaccurate posting of information, you might consider revisiting your repetitively erroneous, misleading, and inaccurate information within this Thread:
http://www.longrangehunting.com/for...levation-right-always-right-76779/index3.html

And in this Thread, you could correct your erroneous Post to correctly state that rain doesn't affect the trajectory of supersonic bullets:
http://www.longrangehunting.com/forums/f17/rains-affect-82426/

And in this Thread you inaccurately Posted "Was the humidity higher as well? That will increase resistance and thus your drop as well if it was."
http://www.longrangehunting.com/forums/f17/where-did-i-go-wrong-81128/

Upon which I sent you a PM in the effort to encourage you to correct your confusing, inaccurate Post with the following information.

"If the humidity increases and all other factors remain constant, then the density of the air decreases, which decreases resistance. Would be good to correct your post so as to not confuse. I know it seems counter-intuitive, but it is true. The more moisture, the less dense the air."


Said I wasn't picking a fight. Never said I wasn't up to it.


Oh, and I almost forgot this Thread, where you contend over and over again that the Hornady Amax is unfit for purposes of long range hunting. Now there's something that is both inaccurate AND humorous:
http://www.longrangehunting.com/forums/f17/hornady-max-61617/index3.html

I am correct about rain.

I am correct about the Amax. There are better bullets.

I did correct my error on humidity after reading your PM.

I am however not ALWAYS correct, nor did I claim to be.

Next time they are on sale at walmart I'll see if I can pick you up a sense of humor... .

 

[extreme]

This is a great post.. Hope it stays civil..It is interesting (to me anyway),,how different rifle builders think.I,am surprised lazzeroni and Shawn didn,t post.
My vote goes with George @ GAP.

 

[a10xrifle]

Interesting topic created by this guy, Id like to make everyone clear that I dont have a problem with the 300 or 338 RUM or any of the big 300 or 338 Calibers, I Like them just fine. Hell Ive got a Wyoming trip planned for 2012 where 338 Lapua is the name of the Game.

This guy was wanting to get into LR hunting, And had missed a nice Elk the previous year. The 300 Win will well suit this guy if he practices. If he does not there isnt any caliber thats going to help.

If Pat puts on his Spring Montana Shoot, I hope to see some of you guys there. Ill bring my Puny 7mm WSM.

 

[scenarshooter]

George,

The shoot dates are April 28th and 29th. Hope to see you and many others there. We will be setting up a "Hunter's Course", per your suggestion last fall. It will be challenging and fun.

One thing that hasn't been mentioned in this thread is the very short barrel life of the .300 RUM. 500-600 rounds, compared to 1200-1500 rounds with the Win Mag. Quite a little more trigger time per barrel change. Trust me, that makes a difference....

 

[Pdvdh]

Melonite or nitride salt bath might improve the barrel life. And that barrel treatment technique is apparently available now for individuals. Has the potential to turn the 700-round RUM into a 1100 to 1400-round RUM. Cost = $100.

 

[a10xrifle]

Melonite or nitride salt bath might improve the barrel life. And that barrel treatment technique is apparently available now for individuals. Has the potential to turn the 700-round RUM into a 1100 to 1400-round RUM. Cost = $100.

FBI, Military has been testing this on AR-Types, They are not seeing any real good proof thats it does anything . The Heat still brakes up the structure of the Metal at the throat and thats not going to change with a hard coating or Heat Treating.