Full length resize or neck size only for y'all long range hunters?

[birddog67]

I neck size then after 5 loadings FL size , nothing wrong with RCBS but , I FL sized some 1 shot cases for my 308 ,
5 with the RCBS FL die
5 with my redding FL dies

Checked the runout at the neck
RCBS was .005
Redding was .003

When I load with the RCBS after seating bullets are from .005-.008 runout
Redding are .002-.005 runout

This is just my experience

 

[SidecarFlip]

I neck size then after 5 loadings FL size , nothing wrong with RCBS but , I FL sized some 1 shot cases for my 308 ,
5 with the RCBS FL die
5 with my redding FL dies

Checked the runout at the neck
RCBS was .005
Redding was .003

When I load with the RCBS after seating bullets are from .005-.008 runout
Redding are .002-.005 runout

This is just my experience

Lets dissect that a bit. You say the RCBS is 0.005 and the Redding is 0.003. Thats actually TIR (total indicated runout). your actual off center is half that or 0.0025 for the RCBS and 0.0015 for the Redding respectively. One, thats most likely well within the TIR for a factory bore and two, taking into account the components themselves and your indicator (which I presume is not tenths indicating but instead thousanths indicating, your runout is conjecture.

It's very difficult to measure in tenths with any factory made jig with component parts in a reloading bench scenario.

Not saying you can't, what I'm saying is the procedure isn't consistent. Too many varibles...... and...

Unless the projectile is crammed into the lands (throat of the rifling) upon loading (which is pretty much impossible because the bolt won't close), the 'jump' from the case neck to the lands is, in fact air space, so any small amount of initial runout will be offset as the projectile seats in the throat and begins it's trip down the rifling.

What I'm saying is that 2 or 3 or even 6 or 7 thousands is inconsequential in the grand scheme of things and measuring inconsistencies due to human error and the measuring jig itself, degrade the validity of that measurement.

You can massage your cases as much as you want to and reduce the initial runout to nil (if possible) but you still are dealing with bullet jump, bore runout, barrel to chamber fit and even your shooting style which all contribute to the tound not going exactly where you want it to.

Have fun.

I found myself that RCBS dies tend to have the expander ball assembly seat in the die offcenter from the factory, and easy fix that takes some time and patience on your part. It has to be manulipulated a bit and retightened more than once. No biggie.

 

[Nomosendero]

Like some, I have been neck sizing 4-5 times and then FL sizing. When I neck size, I have left the expander ball out if loading for one rifle, using a Lee deprimer to drop out the primer. Is this bad?

 

[sendero72]

My 7 mag Hart barrel is more accurate FL sizing than neck sizing. Don't understand why! With the previous barrel, neck sizing was the norm and more accurate, but not with the Hart which shoots lights out.

 

[X-man]

Lets dissect that a bit. You say the RCBS is 0.005 and the Redding is 0.003. Thats actually TIR (total indicated runout). your actual off center is half that or 0.0025 for the RCBS and 0.0015 for the Redding respectively. One, thats most likely well within the TIR for a factory bore and two, taking into account the components themselves and your indicator (which I presume is not tenths indicating but instead thousanths indicating, your runout is conjecture.

It's very difficult to measure in tenths with any factory made jig with component parts in a reloading bench scenario.

Not saying you can't, what I'm saying is the procedure isn't consistent. Too many varibles...... and...

Unless the projectile is crammed into the lands (throat of the rifling) upon loading (which is pretty much impossible because the bolt won't close), the 'jump' from the case neck to the lands is, in fact air space, so any small amount of initial runout will be offset as the projectile seats in the throat and begins it's trip down the rifling.

What I'm saying is that 2 or 3 or even 6 or 7 thousands is inconsequential in the grand scheme of things and measuring inconsistencies due to human error and the measuring jig itself, degrade the validity of that measurement.

You can massage your cases as much as you want to and reduce the initial runout to nil (if possible) but you still are dealing with bullet jump, bore runout, barrel to chamber fit and even your shooting style which all contribute to the tound not going exactly where you want it to.

Have fun.

I found myself that RCBS dies tend to have the expander ball assembly seat in the die offcenter from the factory, and easy fix that takes some time and patience on your part. It has to be manulipulated a bit and retightened more than once. No biggie.

I don't understand.
So you are suggesting he can't read 0.002-0.005 TIR with a standard dial indicator and runout v-block roller setup?
The design of a well made roller block is such that it will take up any slack (by the rollers spreading under pressure taking up any slack in the system). This in conjunction with a case head stop provides a very repeatable gauge.

Standard dial gauges read in 0.001 increments and ten thou gauges measure in 0.0001 increments.

Not that I am suggesting it, but I have a 10 thou indicator that does work on the same system and though not very practical it is very accurate.

I agree about 6-7 TIR being the magic number.
Once TIR is less than 0.006 you might as well look elsewhere for accuracy gains.

 

[SidecarFlip]

What I said was concerning case neck concentricity is the indicated runout is half the actual error, not the actual error. Additionally, to read a tenth on any indicator in any jig, requires an extremely rigid mount and none that I've seen for sale offer a rigid enough mount to in indcate a tenth, in fact, all that I've seen come with a thousandth indicator and a thousand of an inch will be on a good day and not repeatable.

In as much as I own a machine shop (and I deal with tenths and hundreths and millionths of an inch), I know full well about the parameters of measurement in small increments.

When dealing in tenths, just the heat from your fingers or a cold draft or your warm breath will have an impact on the reading, especially with brass that has a high coefficient of expansion (and conversely contracton).

For accurate and repeatable measuring in 0.0001 or better, the enviroment must be controlled. Thats not happening on a reloading bench, in your study or anywhere else in a home or garage.

Thats all, nothing more.

 

[Greyfox]

Like some, I have been neck sizing 4-5 times and then FL sizing. When I neck size, I have left the expander ball out if loading for one rifle, using a Lee deprimer to drop out the primer. Is this bad?

No, its not bad. There are obviously proponents of each method. I use both depending on the specific rifle/chamber, and the results I get with accuracy and ES. The benchresters prefer FL sizing. They also prefer 5 ounce trigger pulls. The possible .1-.2 MOA benefit for hunting, even at long range probably gets nullified by other factors.

 

[SidecarFlip]

No, its not bad. There are obviously proponents of each method. I use both depending on the specific rifle/chamber, and the results I get with accuracy and ES. The benchresters prefer FL sizing. They also prefer 5 ounce trigger pulls. The possible .1-.2 MOA benefit for hunting, even at long range probably gets nullified by other factors.

Those light triggers get you in trouble ocassionally as I found out this winter shooting indoor pistol with my very tricked Ruger. It pulls less than 3 ounces with no creep or pre-travel and I took out a set of lights on the indoor range. Gotta remember where my finger is..............

 

[X-man]

Those light triggers get you in trouble ocassionally as I found out this winter shooting indoor pistol with my very tricked Ruger. It pulls less than 3 ounces with no creep or pre-travel and I took out a set of lights on the indoor range. Gotta remember where my finger is..............

I lost a moose about 10 years ago when I forgot to reset the jewel trigger on my 300Win. I went to get on the trigger with frozen fingers and couldn't tell I was already touching it when I dropped the saftey...Shot over its back by a full moose!
I think the trigger was set at 8 ounces at the time.

I invested in a local CNC shop and have learned a lot of interesting things about your business.
We just added 2 more 9 axis millturn machines and another Mori Seiki NHX4000..pretty exciting stuff if you are into CNC production!
My partner laughed at my ten thou rig! I am no machinist!

My reloading room is temperature and humidity controlled...pretty fancy stuff for a reloading room! My reloading bench is pretty nice!

I have been way down the ultra OCD side of reloading and the gains (if any) are not worth the pain. The only exception to that being something as small and precise as a 6mmbr and the only thing I do different for that case is weigh charges with a GD503 scale.

The only other thing I do that I have never seen mentioned here is tune for OCW.
As hunters we want to see more consistent and repeatable accuracy week after month after year and tuning for Optimum Charge Weight helps a lot in that regard.

 

[SidecarFlip]

I reload in a climate controlled room as well. Right on the bench in front of my Gerstner wood tool boxes.. I set the powder scale on top of an LSStarrett Pink Granite surface plate..

No investors here, I call the shots, reap the rewards and assume the pain.

 

[X-man]

I hear you about the investor thing, but it allowed him to engage another market that wouldn't have been possible otherwise.
I think he has been thankful for the experienced business advice as well. I got my investment back plus a nice return long ago and he is now supporting a very nice lifestyle, but hell yes he has busted his balls keeping those machines working 24/7.
Hard work for sure, but for some time now he has been at the point where he could easily buy me out..and I thought he would, yet I am still with him taking another step toward growth....Not all investors are bad.

 

[motrophyhunter]

On my belted magnum calibers my I use somewhat a long process (yes a bit anal) but it has worked great for me which is:

1. Neck size with Redding S die (neck turned brass)
2. Use a Larry Willis Belted Magnum Collet resize die.
3. I use a Redding body die just to bump the shoulder back 2/1000's
4. Use a Forster competition bullet seater die.
5. Found that a cheap Lee crimp die (extremely light crimp) works well.

 

[gebhardt02]

I FL resize taking care to bump the shoulder a minimal amt. I've had brass before that I neck sized only and didn't bump the shoulder when it needed, I just lost track of how many firings with neck sizing only. These gave a very tight fit in the chamber which I didn't like. If you bump the shoulder every third sizing, I think neck sizing would be alright but I'll stick with just FL sizing to keep things consistent.

Geb

 

[clemens]

Does bumping shoulder back work for all cases or just belted cased? 22-250 for example does it benefit from FL or neck sizing with shoulder bump?