Full length resize or neck size only for y'all long range hunters?

[MontanaRifleman]

I'm not a BR guy either, but I have had a few BR rifles for LR varmint shooting. I've read quite a bit and messed with a lot of tools and techniques. Seems like a good shooting rifle will shoot, but one that doesn't want to won't. I've actually become less particular about making every detail just right, but there are some things I have learned that I still use.
If FL sizing can make my reloads more accurate, I'll use it. I haven't invented anything myself, just learned from others who have.

Very true. I think the biggest ingredient in accuracy is the rifle and the biggest ingredient in the rifle is the barrel based on my experience. I also have become less particular, not being a bench shooter, but I do desire a good degree of accuracy. I do some basic sorting of bullets and brass, brass prep (no neck turning) and when it comes to sizing I haven't found much of a diff between FL and neck sizing so I FL and when it comes to sizing, I figure concentricity is the ultimate goal and I can get very low runout with FL. In my limited experience, it's been better than neck, but that's just me.

At this point the easiest, quickest way to make accurate ammo is the one I want to use.

That's me

 

[X-man]

Very true. I think the biggest ingredient in accuracy is the rifle and the biggest ingredient in the rifle is the barrel based on my experience. I also have become less particular, not being a bench shooter, but I do desire a good degree of accuracy. I do some basic sorting of bullets and brass, brass prep (no neck turning) and when it comes to sizing I haven't found much of a diff between FL and neck sizing so I FL and when it comes to sizing, I figure concentricity is the ultimate goal and I can get very low runout with FL. In my limited experience, it's been better than neck, but that's just me.



That's me

I used to obsess about such things and even have a ten thou dial indicator for runout gauge to show for my efforts.
You do get less runout with full length size dies.
Perhaps the better question is does it mater?

So how much runout is too much?
You might be surprised that 6 thou is the magic number.

So how do I know that?
Well....after shooting a few screw up wobbly rounds into the 1s I began to suspect the quest for perfectly strait rounds was for nothing. A quick phone call to Bruce Baer (builder and shooter extraordinaire of 60 pound 1000 yard benchrest rifles) confirmed my thoughts and then some.
Bruce did actual testing from 10 thou to 0 runout and found that below 6 thou he could see no difference in accuracy...in his 60 pound bench rest rifles with their 80 power scopes!
Go figure!

Just so you know

 

[MontanaRifleman]

I used to obsess about such things and even have a ten thou dial indicator for runout gauge to show for my efforts.
You do get less runout with full length size dies.
Perhaps the better question is does it mater?

So how much runout is too much?
You might be surprised that 6 thou is the magic number.

So how do I know that?
Well....after shooting a few screw up wobbly rounds into the 1s I began to suspect the quest for perfectly strait rounds was for nothing. A quick phone call to Bruce Baer (builder and shooter extraordinaire of 60 pound 1000 yard benchrest rifles) confirmed my thoughts and then some.
Bruce did actual testing from 10 thou to 0 runout and found that below 6 thou he could see no difference in accuracy...in his 60 pound bench rest rifles with their 80 power scopes!
Go figure!

Just so you know

Tell ya an interesting story with my previously mentioned 25-06 Sendero. I bought it used at a gun show with some extras including some Remington ammo. It was wearing a Tasco 6x24 scope mounted 90 degrees out - meaning the windage turret was up and the elevation turret was to the left No wonder they sold it Anyway, I get home and I remount the scope properly and take it and the Rem ammo to the local NF and set up a target, and stepped off about 110 yds to where my portable shooting table was set up. I them proceeded to fire a sighter which was about 1" right and 3" high. Amazing luck bore sighting it! So I make some adjustments and proceed to shoot a .224" 3 shot group. Based on the click corrections I made, the first shot would have been right in there with the other 3. I was stoked!

Took it home and commenced to clean it, and clean it, and clean it. It took me several days of scrubbing with Bore Tech getting many layers of carbon and copper out. Wondered what the heck??? I took it to the gunsmith for a bore scope and he told me it was one of the most fire cracked barrels he had ever seen. It never did shoot quite that well after that although it was a sloid sub 1/2 MOA shooter and I did shot one .4" group @ 212 yds with it. Drilled an antelope @ 280 yds dead on the POA with it.

Anyway, I later measured the runout of some of the leftover Rem ammo and it was going about .006 to .009

It makes ya wonder

 

[MudRunner2005]

The only cartrides that I FL size are straight-wall cartridges like .444 Marlin, .44 Mag, .357 Mag, .45-70, etc... And I also FL size my .30-30 Win.

All my bolt guns and single-shots get neck-sized.

 

[MMERSS]

I neck size for my bolt guns until the cases get snug, then I bump the shoulder back .002. Saves a step in the reloading process.
I size about 80% on the neck, and leave the last bit unsized to center the round in the chamber.

Another +1 along with annealing every other round.

 

[Beluebow]

Very true. I think the biggest ingredient in accuracy is the rifle and the biggest ingredient in the rifle is the barrel based on my experience. I also have become less particular, not being a bench shooter, but I do desire a good degree of accuracy. I do some basic sorting of bullets and brass, brass prep (no neck turning) and when it comes to sizing I haven't found much of a diff between FL and neck sizing so I FL and when it comes to sizing, I figure concentricity is the ultimate goal and I can get very low runout with FL. In my limited experience, it's been better than neck, but that's just me.



That's me

+1 well said!

 

[Greyfox]

I haven't found an accuracy difference either between FL and neck sizing. My run outs tend to be better with neck sizing. The biggest advantage for me is time savings and longer case life with neck sizing. I can get up to 2x the case life by body sizing every 4th or 5th firing.

 

[X-man]

I haven't found an accuracy difference either between FL and neck sizing. My run outs tend to be better with neck sizing. The biggest advantage for me is time savings and longer case life with neck sizing. I can get up to 2x the case life by body sizing every 4th or 5th firing.

With a 1-2 thou bump case life is not a problem....but I usually chuck my cases at 15 firings.

90% of BR, F-class, or tactical competitors full length these days because of better accuracy and reliability.

My 6mmbr is definitely more accurate with Fl sizing...Neck sized it shoots 2-4s while FL sized it shoots 1-2s (when I am up to the task). Can't say about the other chambers, but I believe I see fewer fliers.
I do know I am far more likely to get a dread doughnut in 5-10 firings from partial sizing the neck....Then nothing shoots.

Your runout is better Neck sizing because of your FL die setup.
Have you ever tried a custom FL die with no decap ball and rod?
Its not that expensive and is definitely worth a try...If you lived closer I would loan you a few to try.

Neck sizing is definitely quicker...and quicker usually means more shooting!

 

[MMERSS]

My 6mmbr is definitely more accurate with Fl sizing...Neck sized it shoots 2-4s while FL sized it shoots 1-2s (when I am up to the task). Can't say about the other chambers, but I believe I see fewer fliers.

What are your experiences with full length sizing using a neck bushing such as the Redding FL type S dies for mag cartridges with SAAMI spec chambers?

 

[Canvsbk]

I neck size for my bolt guns until the cases get snug, then I bump the shoulder back .002. Saves a step in the reloading process.
I size about 80% on the neck, and leave the last bit unsized to center the round in the chamber.

My exact routine. Has been for decades.

 

[X-man]

What are your experiences with full length sizing using a neck bushing such as the Redding FL type S dies for mag cartridges with SAAMI spec chambers?

This is actually a pretty complicated and convoluted question to answer.
The short answer is I have them in a dozen calibers or so and I have come to prefer a standard die for hunting applications.

Does the bushing size die create more accurate ammunition? Not in my experience.
I don't like the bushing die because it can not size the entire neck so it ultimately encourages a "dread doughnut" which is absolutely detrimental to accuracy. The way around this is neck turning or reaming, but this opens another can of worms in a non neck turn chamber. In other words the bushing die takes you down the bench rest road whether you want it or not, whether your rifle is set up for it or not, and whether you need or benefit from it or not.
The real purpose of the bushing die is to adjust for clearance cut by neck turning/tight neck chambers. Well....I have been down the road of a tight neck chamber and saw zero increase in accuracy. I admit and understand that at the benchrest level neck turning and tight chambers are part of the game, but any potential increase would be so small as to be of no use to a long range hunter.
I am skimming over some finer points, but those are the broad brush strokes of my experience.

If you want a little looser neck die Forster will cut it to your specs for $10.00 over the regular die cost. Once you get the neck tension right you can abandon the expander/decapper..A big upside.
Redding will do this as well, but they are a little more expensive.
You can also send them 3 fired cases and they will make a die to suite with the neck to your specifications.
This is what I do.

Is the Redding Micrometer seating die worth the money? I think so.

 

[Old teacher]

I neck size everything, bumping the shoulder back a bit as many have suggested. I have 3, 300Win mags, and the difference in chamber size is amazing. My Tikka and my Sendero are light years apart. Cases fired in the Tikka will not chamber in the Sendero without full length resizing, so I have to keep every labeled for the appropriate gun. I have not had runout problems with any of my neck sizers, but I had serious runout problems with the full length sizer for my.338 Lapua. Going to a neck sizer solved the problem. Somewhere I remember seeing a tool which just amounted to a block of steel with holes drilled in it for the outside neck size of numerous calibers. Any case with a slight runout , after loading, could be stuck in the right hole, and with a slight pressure, the neck could be straightened. Anybody know anything about this, because I have not been able to find where I originally saw it.

 

[X-man]

I neck size everything, bumping the shoulder back a bit as many have suggested. I have 3, 300Win mags, and the difference in chamber size is amazing. My Tikka and my Sendero are light years apart. Cases fired in the Tikka will not chamber in the Sendero without full length resizing, so I have to keep every labeled for the appropriate gun. I have not had runout problems with any of my neck sizers, but I had serious runout problems with the full length sizer for my.338 Lapua. Going to a neck sizer solved the problem. Somewhere I remember seeing a tool which just amounted to a block of steel with holes drilled in it for the outside neck size of numerous calibers. Any case with a slight runout , after loading, could be stuck in the right hole, and with a slight pressure, the neck could be straightened. Anybody know anything about this, because I have not been able to find where I originally saw it.

It was originally an old lawnmower blade and it was Ross Seyfried
I think Hornady makes something like that now.

 

[SidecarFlip]

As a rule, I FL with bushing dies 90% of the time. NS ocassionally depending on caliber and cartridge to chamber fit.

Additionally, IMO, one of the most important aspects is buying high quality brass the firat time. Cheap brass don't work. Just ask Hornady.