Full length resize or neck size only for y'all long range hunters?

[MMERSS]

This is actually a pretty complicated and convoluted question to answer.
The short answer is I have them in a dozen calibers or so and I have come to prefer a standard die for hunting applications.

Does the bushing size die create more accurate ammunition? Not in my experience.
I don't like the bushing die because it can not size the entire neck so it ultimately encourages a "dread doughnut" which is absolutely detrimental to accuracy. The way around this is neck turning or reaming, but this opens another can of worms in a non neck turn chamber. In other words the bushing die takes you down the bench rest road whether you want it or not, whether your rifle is set up for it or not, and whether you need or benefit from it or not.
The real purpose of the bushing die is to adjust for clearance cut by neck turning/tight neck chambers. Well....I have been down the road of a tight neck chamber and saw zero increase in accuracy. I admit and understand that at the benchrest level neck turning and tight chambers are part of the game, but any potential increase would be so small as to be of no use to a long range hunter.
I am skimming over some finer points, but those are the broad brush strokes of my experience.

If you want a little looser neck die Forster will cut it to your specs for $10.00 over the regular die cost. Once you get the neck tension right you can abandon the expander/decapper..A big upside.
Redding will do this as well, but they are a little more expensive.
You can also send them 3 fired cases and they will make a die to suite with the neck to your specifications.
This is what I do.

Is the Redding Micrometer seating die worth the money? I think so.

There are several compelling details within your response. Obviously every avenue should be explored to reduce the errors associated with long range hunting. Possessing the ability and experience to consistently reload accurate hunting ammunition is undoubtedly one of them. To what end should one consider the precision of a particular long range hunting rifle/ammo combination as acceptable? The answer will ultimately lie within each of us. I definitely have the interest to compare the results of a Forster FL die to a Redding neck sizing die in one of my chambers.

 

[SidecarFlip]

"Is the Redding Micrometer seating die worth the money? I think so."

Lots in a name. For my money, I prefer and use exclusively RCBS Gold Medal micrometer front load seating dies.

 

[X-man]

"Is the Redding Micrometer seating die worth the money? I think so."

Lots in a name. For my money, I prefer and use exclusively RCBS Gold Medal micrometer front load seating dies.

I could care less about name, I want results.
I agree that some guys buy into a name thing then spout it from the rooftops...I am not that guy.
I happen to have some of the Redding comp seater dies....Great stuff..Yes, they are expensive.

The last precision seater I got from RCBS was anything but precise.
I see the gold series is out now in a caliber specific design now? I hope they got it right this time because I still feel the sting of the last one....Easily the worst die I have ever owned.

For the money I think the Forster Ultra Micrometer Seater is the way to go for a long range hunter. It is also 30.00 less than the RCBS Gold deal.
Since the Redding is only $4.00 more than the RCBS I would take that over the RCBS as well.

 

[LDHunter]

I guess I might get my Long Range Hunter Card revoked for saying this but I've been using the Lee Collet dies for sizing my necks for several years now and have found that I couldn't improve the accuracy I get when using them with any other die sets I've ever owned. They save mountains of time in the reloading process.

I still use Redding Competition seater dies to seat bullets though in most of my favorite chamerings but I still have a few older ones that are mostly plain Jane still hunt cartridges that I use your basic plain Jane RCBS FL die sets on.

I took a couple of my cartridges from my favorite shooting rifles to a local bench rest shooter a few years ago and he was going to show me that runout was too much with my Lee Collet die neck sizing routines and he he came away a believer... Less than .002" if I remember correctly. He was impressed... I've never invested in runout or neck thickness gauges because that's just waaaaaay to anal for this old redneck shooter.... LOL

The reason I got started originally with the Lee Collet dies was because I could take the brass directly from my vibratory case cleaner and use the Lee Collet dies to do all the sizing I'd ever do on those cases until they started chambering with difficulty. Case life improved and I didn't need to use ANY case lube at all after the first FL length sizing with new brass or subsequent FL length sizing to reset shoulders!!!

After using the Collet Die I use the RCBS multistation case prep center to lightly rechamfer the inside and outside of the neck mouths and clean the primer pocket and to use a nylon brush to clean the inside of the case mouth.

Because my favorite long range rifles and the only ones with expensive brass (one and the same) are of the SAUM variety, I sometimes do a full length resize after they start chambering with difficulty but rarely get more than 5 loadings before I chuck them. I just don't like to worry with old brass or annealing.

I usually just use Remington or Winchester brass for my rifles although I have some Lapua brass I'm ready to try... None of my rifles are Custom Gunsmith made (yet) and none of them have special chambers or tight necks.

YMMV.....

Bob

 

[SidecarFlip]

Nothing wrong with Lee except the lock rings which can be replaced. Black 'O' rings only have one use IMO, hog castrators.

 

[bbutturff]

I full length re-size every time and only bump the shoulder back .002. I also anneal the necks and shoulders every time. I feel it makes more uniform neck tension and less run-out. Plus, I haven't had to cull any brass in over three years due to neck splits.

 

[MTBULLET]

which ever works for you. on this site you will have those that swear "only fl works, cause I use that method" to those that swear "if you don't neck size, your gun will explode ". First off, how "accurate" is accurate enough for YOU? some here are happy with "minute of moose" some want (and some claim) .25 moa to 1,000 yds. Use whatever method works for YOU, and YOUR rifle that does what YOU want.

 

[Old teacher]

Thanks for the info, XMan. I will check with Hornady on that.
Sidecar: couldn't agree more on the brass. I have gone to Nosler and Lapua for all my brass. The Nosler comes ready to load, , sized, checked for runout, and sorted by weight. I have never had to throw one out, and if you anneal the necks about every fourth loading, they last a long time, depending on caliber. The Lapuas don't arrive quite so detailed, but I have never had one with runout problems. I know this will probably start a firestorm of criticism, but after 50 years of loading for probably 30 different calibers and wildcats, I am not so sure that some of the tiny details we talk about so much really make much difference. A case in point: the two best groups I have ever fired came out of my 300 Win mag Sendero. At 200 yards, I put three shots through the same hole, and only examination under a magnifying glass could you tell that all three, indeed, did pass through the same hole. I fired one more three shot group, two went directly through the same hole, and after the third shot, I looked over at my partner and told him that I pulled the third shot a half inch to the right. I was off a bit; when measured it was .4 to the right. What was interesting is that I was shooting garbage...left overs from various experiments of powders, cases, and primers just to get rid of them. The only thing consistent was the bullet, they were all Nosler Ballistic Tips. It remains a mystery at times.

 

[SidecarFlip]

Bottom line is the ptojectile is only as accurate as the julio shooting it can be factoring all the varibles.

You can build the best rounds you can but if your barrel is crap or you have the shakes, it matters little.

The group I hunt with foregoes all the crap, for the most part buys factory ammunition (except me), shoots fine duplex scopes with no hold overs, sights in at 200 and practices 'Kentucky Windage and still brings home the bacon, or elk or sheep or whatever.

You can buy the finest rifle and build the best ammunition but it's only as good as you are competent and competence takes lots of practice, more so than fancy ammo or high dollar guns.

I just happen to like rolling my own.

 

[SidecarFlip]

Thanks for the info, XMan. I will check with Hornady on that.
Sidecar: couldn't agree more on the brass. I have gone to Nosler and Lapua for all my brass. The Nosler comes ready to load, , sized, checked for runout, and sorted by weight. I have never had to throw one out, and if you anneal the necks about every fourth loading, they last a long time, depending on caliber. The Lapuas don't arrive quite so detailed, but I have never had one with runout problems. I know this will probably start a firestorm of criticism, but after 50 years of loading for probably 30 different calibers and wildcats, I am not so sure that some of the tiny details we talk about so much really make much difference. A case in point: the two best groups I have ever fired came out of my 300 Win mag Sendero. At 200 yards, I put three shots through the same hole, and only examination under a magnifying glass could you tell that all three, indeed, did pass through the same hole. I fired one more three shot group, two went directly through the same hole, and after the third shot, I looked over at my partner and told him that I pulled the third shot a half inch to the right. I was off a bit; when measured it was .4 to the right. What was interesting is that I was shooting garbage...left overs from various experiments of powders, cases, and primers just to get rid of them. The only thing consistent was the bullet, they were all Nosler Ballistic Tips. It remains a mystery at times.

I've gotten lazy do I really like Lapua brass and Nosler, especially in large caliber. Lazy has it's price but I don't go to the range and blow off a hundred rounds of bank busting calibers, I practice with a 223 or a rimfire rifle. My favorite by far is the 10-22 Ruger I bought at Wallyworld. New trigger and a Volks tensioned barrel and it's fun, cheap and very accurate and builds that practice confidence, besides it's hell on woodchucks and opossums.

Of the last 3 purchases of both Nosler and Lapua, all cases were right on length, diametrically correct and nicely packaged. All I did was chamfer the mouths, check the flash holes and load them. What cou8ld be easier.

Interestingly, I ordered 1000 223 OFMB/LC and 500 308 OFMB/LC sized, cleaned, trimmed to length and primer pockets rebated and reamed from Sarch (Top Brass) in February. It took me 3 month to get them but I must say that out of the entire lot of 1500, 1 of the 223 cases was unloadable, the case mouth had a divot in it, all the 308's were perfect. Case length was within 0.005 across all the cases. All I did was chamfer (VLD) the case mouth, seat the primers and load them.

I'll be buying all my OF Brass from them. It's a wait but well worth the price.

 

[X-man]

Overall I have had my best luck with Lapua. If I can get it I will buy it every time.
I like Nosler brass, but if just doesn't last very long in my 300Win or 338 Edge....I don't load either overyly hot.

In my 300Win Remington has become my current favorite...who knows why, but the lot I got shoots and it lasts.

I have some 556LC that has something like 20 firings. I anneal it when it starts to crack again and it just keeps going!
I bought 2000 Winchester 223 cases recently that came with nasty burs and D shaped flash holes! Out of curiosity I put some together with my gopher load (52 grain Speer Hp over 24.5 grains of 748)....My normal 3/4 MOA gopher load (on a good day) was tearing ragged bugholes at 200 yards! You should have seen my buddies laugh every time I stood up bewildered and said "I can't believe it!". I was ripping 5 shot bugholes with the most unlikely combination I can think of! Better than the same load with Lapua brass!

You just never know until you shoot it.

 

[Truc]

I shoot Benchrest comp and only FL size both my comp rifle brass and my hunting rifle brass. Since I cant seem to spell the word I want to use, you want every round to be the same and with FL sizing they will be. Size them just enough so you can feel the brass when closing the bolt without the firing pin in the bolt.

 

[SidecarFlip]

I shoot Benchrest comp and only FL size both my comp rifle brass and my hunting rifle brass. Since I cant seem to spell the word I want to use, you want every round to be the same and with FL sizing they will be. Size them just enough so you can feel the brass when closing the bolt without the firing pin in the bolt.

Interesting, I do to. I shoot in a league for fun though. 100 yards with a (of all things) a 223 Ruger Mini 14 thats not a mini 14 anymore and it don't spit brass 40 feet either. 1" diameter bulls with score rings, 10 to a sheet, 3 sheets to a day. I don't use a sled, I don't like them. I use a cheap bag rest on the buttstock and my Harris 2 axis on the front.

I won a bet with the rifle once. Cost the bettor 50 bucks. He told me I couldn't blow the head off the upper pin on the target board with one shot, the first shot..... he lost. I shoot Hornady 55 grain FMJBT's in good old LC OFMB with a few grains of H335 and CCI Benchrest primers set at standard COAL because it's gas blowback. I've got an adjustable gas block so I keep it turned down where it just cycles and thats it.

Same flavor I loaded fror a friend but custom set the COAL to his chamber. He tried 10 beforehand and 5 went in the same hole (albeit ragged hole) at 100 yards. He has an over the counter Savage bolt with a Leupy Rifleman scope and dreaded (for me at least) Leupy QR mounts. I never use them and won't but it's his show, not mine.

 

[MMERSS]

You can buy the finest rifle and build the best ammunition but it's only as good as you are competent and competence takes lots of practice, more so than fancy ammo or high dollar guns.

I can't agree more. Combining accuracy with precision = reaping the enjoyment. One aspect with precision reloading, the strict attention to detail tends to create a passion which bleeds over into other finite skills required for long range hunting.