Frustrated with copper fouling.

[Gerard Schultz]

It is probably good housekeeping to clean a rifle after every shooting session. I have a wildcat that I use for walk and stalk, ambush shooting and culling for the market. Whether I fired only one shot on a walk and stalk or 60 on a cull, it gets cleaned after the shoot.

The rifle is getting on for around 3000 shots now, it has never been shot so fast that the barrel became hot and that is probably the saving grace. It has progressively become easier to clean as well.

Some barrels get dirty faster than others and ease of cleaning should never take preference over consistency and accuracy. Once you have learned what you have, treat it accordingly.

 

[upacreek]

I am in that clumsy teenager period regarding guns. I have been reloading many different cartridges for 20+ years. Until recently (because of this forum) I thought I knew it all. I always clean my gun after shooting. What I didn't know is hopped isn't the end all, be cleaner I was taught it to be. Last year was the first time I was introduced to copper remover. It was described as needed rarely. Since this gun shoots pretty good when clean I will have to clean it for copper more. I am waiting to get my new bottle of bore tec. The things I go through to learn make me shake my head.

 

[Kennibear]

upacreek

I lived just east of you for 33 years. Great place to raise children.

I too started out using Hoppe's #9 and when the barrels were badly fouled I would cork the chamber and pour the bore full muzzle up and clamp it that way for days- literally! Come home from work and top it off. It was typical to leave it three or more days to remove significant copper fouling. Hoppe's just doesn't remove copper fast at all.

Most of the "barrel burner" cartridges of old (264 Win etc.) were in fact barrel foulers instead. An old gunsmith in Boise once told me he cleaned a ton of fouled barrels with hot ammonia like the military arsenals used to when his clients would bring in a rifle for rebarreling that was in fact just heavily fouled. 220 Swifts were his best clients.

When I use any of the newer cleaners, they all recommend applying oil after so there is a concern. I swab the bore after the copper remover with a thinner, usually Lacquer Thinner or a new product I found that cleans up other cleaners on most things. It is Citristrip Paint Stripper After Wash (product #PCSW94340) that is used after paint remover to clean off any remaining stripper. Strippers are not just solvents but contain some nasty debonders too. If you've tried painting over stripped wood you find paint fish eyes and bubbles with even the smallest residue left over. This stuff smells like oranges and cleans off residue the best of everything I've tried.

The bore gets a shot and a patch following of G96 Complete Gun Treatment to preserve it all 'till next range time. When I shot corrosive surplus 30/06 back in my youth I found G96 would keep the rust at bay for a day or two before I had to clean the bore with soapy water. Black powder was a tough test and it did a superb job at stopping the rust on my Colt 1851.

I have a plan for outrageous fortune and fame through inventing a product that spritzes down the bore and with a single patch cleans and protects it until next time......


and I still have no idea how to accomplish that!

KB

 

[benchracer]

After an exhausting cleaning I finally got the copper out. Took the gun to my gunsmith and the barrel is junk. Someone used a cleaner like sweets or something and etched the whole barrel. I left his place, 20 miles up the road found a patch of dirt to shoot. I set milk jugs at 200, 300, 350, and 400. I hit the first jug. Cleaned the gun. Shot the second, cleaned the gun. Shot the third, cleaned the gun. Shot at the fourth and missed. No biggie. Got home and like a dork put up a target at 140 (end of the pasture) and shot 3 back to back. .91". The barrel is already showing copper. So my plan is to just clean the stupid thing a lot!

I gave up on the mystery cleaner and picked up some Montana bmg. Worked slow, but worked. Like 5 cycles of the process and a pile of blue patches.

Based on what your smith has told you, I would say that your rifle is a prime candidate for firelapping with a Tubbs Final Finish kit.

 

[royinidaho]

This horse is getting rode to death.

First order a Tubb's Final Finish kit.

Jeff's recommendation is spot on. First get'r clean and copper free. Even if you have to pour the bore full of BTE and let'r set over night. Wipeout foam followed by BTE will be a ton easier.

Then before firing another round do the Tubb's FF process. With this barrel I'd go the full tilt process. I usually use 1/2 of the bullets skipping the 2 most course bullets. This has worked for me in new factory barrels. Using the full process is claimed to only remove 0.0003" of metal. This bbl sounds like it could stand it.

Then the fire 1 clean 1 process.

If this fails sell that sucker or rebarrel it.

By the time you get through this you're well beyond the "teenager" phase and the tuition doesn't bust the bank.

Good luck.

 

[Broz]

Watch that Montana extreme. It is the strongest ammonia based cleaner I have ever used. I would not leave it in the barrel long if it were mine. And it will not get all the copper that BTE will.

But get her clean and then yes I would get a Tubbs kit.

If it will shoot well clean there is still hope for this rifle to be fine for a hunting rifle at 500 and under.

Jeff

 

[MontanaRifleman]

Watch that Montana extreme. It is the strongest ammonia based cleaner I have ever used. I would not leave it in the barrel long if it were mine. And it will not get all the copper that BTE will.

But get her clean and then yes I would get a Tubbs kit.

If it will shoot well clean there is still hope for this rifle to be fine for a hunting rifle at 500 and under.

Jeff

I have used Montana Xtreme 50 BMG and it is a very potent ammonia based solvent. After using it until it showed white patches, I followed up with BTE and the BTE removed more copper. Did the same with Butches Bore Shine and a few others and got the same results.

 

[MontanaRifleman]

This horse is getting rode to death.

First order a Tubb's Final Finish kit.

Jeff's recommendation is spot on. First get'r clean and copper free. Even if you have to pour the bore full of BTE and let'r set over night. Wipeout foam followed by BTE will be a ton easier.

Then before firing another round do the Tubb's FF process. With this barrel I'd go the full tilt process. I usually use 1/2 of the bullets skipping the 2 most course bullets. This has worked for me in new factory barrels. Using the full process is claimed to only remove 0.0003" of metal. This bbl sounds like it could stand it.

Then the fire 1 clean 1 process.

If this fails sell that sucker or rebarrel it.

By the time you get through this you're well beyond the "teenager" phase and the tuition doesn't bust the bank.

Good luck.

If he's getting 40 rounds of accuracy between cleanings, I'm not sure he really needs to do the Tubb's treatment. It would make for an interesting experiment though.

 

[Kennibear]

royinidaho
The reason the horse is so tired is so many shooters have this very same problem. Help is always appreciated.

I am going to go out and get some BTE because of the posts here.

KB

 

[Broz]

royinidaho
The reason the horse is so tired is so many shooters have this very same problem. Help is always appreciated.

I am going to go out and get some BTE because of the posts here.

KB

KB you will probably have to order it. I rarely see it in a sports store. www.midwayusa has it.

Jeff

 

[SidecarFlip]

KB you will probably have to order it. I rarely see it in a sports store. www.midwayusa has it.

Jeff

You can get it direct from Bore Tech as well, in little bottles and big ones.

www.boretech.com

 

[MontanaRifleman]

If you use BT, you'll want to get the proof positive jags. Brass jags will give false copper indications and nickle coated jags will wear out after time leaving the brass body exposed and producing false indications. I know this from experience. And don't use brass tipped rods.

 

[Gerard Schultz]

I had a guy who complained that he could not use his bronze brushes to apply M98 bore cleaner because the hairs fall off the brushes after a short time. He was genuinely under the impression that M98 only removes copper. I find that a mop works best. I have a couple for every caliber and rinse them with water or paint thinner when they get dirty. They last a long time.

 

[Michael Eichele]

There's always the JB paste treatment. That'll clean the copper right out and fast with NO vapors. Carbon too. I don't think there is another way to get a bore down to bare steel any easier, faster or more complete.

Unfortunately, JB will also cause a barrel to copper foul even worse. But it might be a good place to start right before you fire lap should you choose to fire lap.