Frustrated with copper fouling.

[sendero72]

Once you get it cleaned, try Kroil oil for the new break in period.

 

[Kennibear]

I have used Barnes' CR10 on a new factory cut rifling barrel that seems to foul pretty fast. I leave it in for about 15 minutes after applying with a nylon brush. It cleans the best of the products I have tried although I haven't tried them all. My custom E.R.Shaw is a button rifled barrel and the bore is characteristically smooth. It fouls less. Cold hammer forged barrels (using the H&K process) have a very smooth finish. Hand lapped barrels are the best finish possible.

Your barrel does not seem out of the ordinary range of experience. Clean as needed. I would try a break in any how. Couldn't hurt.

KB

 

[Gerard Schultz]

I have been using M98 bore cleaner for more than 10 years and copper, carbon and any other type of gunk is a memory. No more using this for carbon and that for copper and not getting moly build up removed. Cleaning is simplified and economical.

 

[Greyfox]

I will stick my neck out and claim that I have yet to see a correlation between the amount of visible copper at the end of at barrel and the number of accurate rounds that can be fired between cleanings with either custom or factory barrels. I have seen a difference in how much time and effort it takes to clean the rifle. Clearly the tooling marks typical in many factory barrels are notorious for copper build up and can take a long time to get clean. I have customs that have little if any visible copper, that clean very quickly. After many years, and four Remington Milspecs with R5 in 308(1-300WM), I have found that this barrel, when broken in properly, will hold it's accuracy spec(.25-.5MOA) for at least 200 rounds and clean up quickly. I just happen to pick 200 rounds as a cleaning interval, it may very well go longer) The accurate life of approximately 2500 rounds seem to be unaffected by cleaning intervals. These rifles are generally shot very hot in the summer months with as many as 30 rounds every 30 seconds in long range competition. Since I shoot in some competitions that have a factory barrel classification, I have found this barrel to be very close to having custom barrel characteristic, but still qualify as as a factory rig. I think I understand why the military uses the R5 barrel. I use SMK's most of the time. I have recently been shooting a Savage LRP in 260 that holds it's accuracy for 200 rounds, but is murder to to clean. I have tried a lot of cleaning solvents over the years but I'm partial to Boreteck products. My hunting rifles get cleaned every 40-60 rounds mostly because this is about how much I shoot them in a given season. If the rifle won't hold accuracy for this amount of shooting between cleaning, I change the barrel or dump the rifle.

 

[MontanaRifleman]

I have been using M98 bore cleaner for more than 10 years and copper, carbon and any other type of gunk is a memory. No more using this for carbon and that for copper and not getting moly build up removed. Cleaning is simplified and economical.

Bore Tech Eliminator is a one product do it all cleaner/solvent. I don't need to use the CU+2 product, but it leaves a protective film in the bore when done. And it's really no trouble using both. Also very economical if used properly. One bottle will last a very long time.

 

[upacreek]

Thanks for the replies. After looking at the website I am unsure what bore tec product I have. My friend gave me an unlabeled bottle of white liquid that smells like ammonia with instructions. I will order eliminator today just to be sure.
Thanks again for the input.

 

[MontanaRifleman]

Bore Tech doesn't smell like ammonia and has no ammonia in it... you must have something else.

 

[Broz]

Thanks for the replies. After looking at the website I am unsure what bore tec product I have. My friend gave me an unlabeled bottle of white liquid that smells like ammonia with instructions. I will order eliminator today just to be sure.
Thanks again for the input.

That is not Boretech. There is no ammonia or smell with boretech. I have been reading along and you have been getting good advice so I had nothing to add. But I will offer a theory I have. If you take the time to do a complete clean with eliminator. And it will take time and many patched as you watch copper compe out for a long time. Then the barrel where you can leave the bore wet for 10 minutes and follow with 2 or 3 more patches wet with eliminator you will have cleaned all the copper from your bore. There has been different bullets through this rifle between cleanings. This can make for a tough clean as the different alloys bond together. But after a full cleaning I would hope you will expose the rough areas by removing the copper they have grabbed and the next bullets will be allowed to work to smooth these areas up. I too would go back to a semi break in procedure. Shoot 3 to 5 and clean for about 5 groups. This will take some time but hopefully you will notice that the rifle is starting to hold less copper as you go along which is what we are after. Also know that the first cleaning with Boretech Eliminator (BTE)will be the worst. If you have not used it yet I feel you have never gotten all the copper out. Si in fact the rifle was never cleaned completely. But after the first cleaning with BTE it will be easier each time until you get the bore smoothed. My fully seasoned rifle clean in less than 12 patches after 60 to 100 shots fired.

I will also offer for now that you find the favorite bullet and stick with it. I would avoid mixing copper alloys in this rifle for now.

Also I would avoid solid copper bullets in this rifle. They have proven for me to foul the bore faster especially in rifles with rough bores or where higher velocity rounds are used.

If this does not help, I would be looking at using the Tubbs final finish kit. If that does not get it then I feel a new barrel will be the only cure.

Jeff

 

[Greyfox]

Boretech contains a non ammonia based chealating agent, which is a chemical that forms a strong bond with metal ions. A particular agent can be designed that has an attraction to a particular metal like copper. The issue with ammonia is that it's not so selective and can also attract/attack the barrel metal if allowed to sit for prolonged periods. While these newer cleaning solvents claim to be much safer then ammonia for use on barrels, they are not all created equal and some claim they can attack particular metal ions in stainless barrels. I have used Boretech and Proshot products for quite a few years with good success. I would like to know if anyone has long term experience with Wipeout. I tried it a couple of times and it worked so effectively and fast that it made me a little cautious about using it.

 

[MontanaRifleman]

Jeff has given you good advise and I agree that you probably have never got all the copper out before. One thing I would do different is shoot one and clean for the break-in instead of 3 or 5 shot groups between cleaning. I say this because in my experience (and I have a good bit of experience in this with factory barrels) the first shot is responsible for most of the fouling laid down in the bore. After that, successive shots do little to "smooth" out the roughness. How do i know the first shot lays down most of the fouling? Because it takes almost the same amount of effort to clean after 1 shot as it does after 20 or more shots.

I am going to be quite honest with you based again on my experience. I have put a lot of effort into breaking-in used factory barrels and if I could go back knowing what the result was, I would not do it again. Too much effort and time for too little gain. Some factory barrels will just never break-in well. If your barrel is pitted and/or fire cracked along with deep tooling marks, etc., it is pretty much a hopeless case as far as break-in is concerned. To do a break-in with Bore Tech (and there is no quicker way to do it right) you will run wet patches through the bore until color starts to fade. then soak and use a nylon brush to scrub the bore, then wait for 20 min and start running wet patches again... do not run dry dry patches between brush scrubbings... it only wastes time, patches and solvent. Repat this cycle until you see no color on the patches. you will probably run 10-20 or more patches between scrubbing and soaking, less toward the end. You might do half a dozen or more patch and scrub cycles per cleaning session which might take you 2-3 hours or more. It might take you 20 cleaning sessions or more to do the break-in. Been there, done that. It took me 3 long sessions (3 days) at the rifle range to break-in my Senderos.

Another less labor intensive way to do it is with Wipeout. You spray it down the bore and let it soak for 4-8 hrs then run 2 patches through and repeat. 7 or 8 of these cycles will usually clean the worst of bores. Wipeout Accelerator will speed the process a little but you still need let it soak for a good while.

IMO, If you're getting 40 rounds of acceptable accuracy, that isn't too bad for a factory rifle and if it's "just a hunting rifle", well practice alittle with it, clean it before hunting season, foul it and sight it in for the season and leave it alone.

If you're looking for a precision LR rifle, get a new custom match grade barrel.

 

[Drift141]

All I can say is Wipe Out. I was recommeded this stuff from a tech at Cooper (he uses it personally) and let me tell you this stuff really works. Absolutely no scrubbing and can be left to soak in your barrel for up to 48hrs. It is fairely cheap and works like a champ. Does NOT damage your barrel or finishes, but absolutely removes all copper/carbon fouling in your bore.

After using this stuff, I will not use anything else.

 

[MontanaRifleman]

All I can say is Wipe Out. I was recommeded this stuff from a tech at Cooper (he uses it personally) and let me tell you this stuff really works. Absolutely no scrubbing and can be left to soak in your barrel for up to 48hrs. It is fairely cheap and works like a champ. Does NOT damage your barrel or finishes, but absolutely removes all copper/carbon fouling in your bore.

After using this stuff, I will not use anything else.

Wipeout can damage a stock finish depending on what type of finish it is. I had some that got on a wood stock and it ate the finish because I didn't get it off quick enough. It won't harm most synthetic stock finishes.

The advantage to Wipeout is it is a lot less labor intensive than Bore Tech in a bad fouled barrel. But BTE is quicker if that is important. I use both depending on the circumstances. Wipeout is also more costly per cleaning than BTE which goes a long way if you are not wasteful with it. But sometimes the labor/time savings using Wipeout is worth the money.

With a good custom barrel that does not foul much. A cleaning with BTE can go quickly, or one soaking with Wipeout. If you use Wipeout, be careful not to get it on some stock finishes or other stuff for that matter.

 

[Drift141]

Wipeout can damage a stock finish depending on what type of finish it is. I had some that got on a wood stock and it ate the finish because I didn't get it off quick enough. It won't harm most synthetic stock finishes.

The advantage to Wipeout is it is a lot less labor intensive than Bore Tech in a bad fouled barrel. But BTE is quicker if that is important. I use both depending on the circumstances. Wipeout is also more costly per cleaning than BTE which goes a long way if you are not wasteful with it. But sometimes the labor/time savings using Wipeout is worth the money.

With a good custom barrel that does not foul much. A cleaning with BTE can go quickly, or one soaking with Wipeout. If you use Wipeout, be careful not to get it on some stock finishes or other stuff for that matter.

I have not used this product on wood stocked rifles, only synthetic and have not seen any adverse effects. It is helpful to put a towel under your bore guide near the shank to protect the stock etc...

 

[upacreek]

After an exhausting cleaning I finally got the copper out. Took the gun to my gunsmith and the barrel is junk. Someone used a cleaner like sweets or something and etched the whole barrel. I left his place, 20 miles up the road found a patch of dirt to shoot. I set milk jugs at 200, 300, 350, and 400. I hit the first jug. Cleaned the gun. Shot the second, cleaned the gun. Shot the third, cleaned the gun. Shot at the fourth and missed. No biggie. Got home and like a dork put up a target at 140 (end of the pasture) and shot 3 back to back. .91". The barrel is already showing copper. So my plan is to just clean the stupid thing a lot!

I gave up on the mystery cleaner and picked up some Montana bmg. Worked slow, but worked. Like 5 cycles of the process and a pile of blue patches.