Flattest shooting database

[fseaman.js]

With "flattest" xxx being very popular thread type, and a personal interest, I want to make a database of searching "flattest" xxx. Along the lines of Ammoguide but with the specific goal of recording and being able to search the "flattest" xxx.

It's just an entertainment thing same as our discussions of which is flattest for xxx. This is an "old programmer" needs something to do project while it's fluffy cold and nothing more. It may never happen. It may be a stupid idea and I change my mind. Right now it's just a spreadsheet.

Years ago I wanted to break the "mile per second" barrier. It's hard, a mile per second is 5280 fps. . Not sure I want to put in the work and expense but I'm interested in the subject and how it ties into "flattest" xxx.

Most of the information to store is very straight forward, chambering/caliber, yardage, drop, time of flight. Some other things are who submitted it, factory, handload, standardized or wildcat, etc..

I want to include "Point Blank Range" but this is a bit of a snag. I don't want to recalculate every time someone searches, so I want to use a fixed size for the PBR circle or what JBM calls "Vital Zone Radius". It would be to easy to make non-sense of the data if the "Vital Zone Radius" was always different.

What "Vital Zone Radius" should I standardize on?
What searchable information would you want to see.

 

[RichCoyle]

fseaman.js,

Sounds like a fun project. Everything I have is a wildcat firing Hammer bullets. Are you interested in this?

 

[Greatgrandad]

"Flattest" is a relative term, as a specific distance would need to be a parameter for all submissions.
I can think of several calibers and loads that are fairly flat to 300 or 400 yards, but they aren't the best at 600, 800 or 1,000 yards.

 

[Victor3Ranger1]

I would just use a 12" circle
Or maybe a 10"

 

[martinakl]

For searchable, I'd probably want available factory loads to have public "vetting." It would be cool if people could post their actual FPS vs what's on the box.

I'm guessing 257 Weatherby and the 6.5-300 Weatherby are going to be the top two for factory ammo for anything resembling a point blank range circle.

I can imagine some insanely off the chart numbers if there was a reloaded ammo database with non vetted data being uploaded. Exotic hand turned bullets in wildcats.

I wonder what a bullet would actually have to leave the barrel at to cover a full mile in one second. Since they instantly start slowing, the answer is well above 5,280 fps.

 

[fseaman.js]

fseaman.js,

Sounds like a fun project. Everything I have is a wildcat firing Hammer bullets. Are you interested in this?

Yes. I wan't all valid data in the database. If someone wants to use to make a go of that chambering or try to beat it in that "class" that's cool.

Wildcats, factory loads, user loads should all be "categories" to compare.

 

[fseaman.js]

"Flattest" is a relative term, as a specific distance would need to be a parameter for all submissions.
I can think of several calibers and loads that are fairly flat to 300 or 400 yards, but they aren't the best at 600, 800 or 1,000 yards.

That's the point. If someone wants to know the "flattest" 224 to 300 yards, it's a search. If they want to compare wildcat to standardized, it's a search. If they want to compare PBR, it's a search. Um, PBR being a challenge because what "Vital Zone Radius" to use. I like 2" radius but I'll take suggestions.

I don't want to calculate anything on the fly. All the velocities, drops and time of flight would be precalculated as part of the database entry. Just do them all from 100 to 1000. After 1000 it gets a little "odd" for flattest, though if I do it "right" it would just be data. I'm used to multi-dimensional databases. It's been a minute but it's just new versions of the old stuff. Progress vs mySQL.

 

[fseaman.js]

I would just use a 12" circle
Or maybe a 10"

Seems "big". Of course any standard is better than someone saying a PBR with no reference to the "Vital Zone Radius" and making claims that their PBR is 500 yards.

 

[fseaman.js]

For searchable, I'd probably want available factory loads to have public "vetting." It would be cool if people could post their actual FPS vs what's on the box.

I like it. It's gonna take a bit of a think to "describe" factory load data vs vetted data for that load. Factory load for a 257 Weatherby says XXX but shooter "Bob" has a 34 inch barrel. It should be able to be described or noted what that does.

I'm hoping to keep submissions "simple". I really just want the same data that JBM Calculations and ShooterCalculator uses, caliber, bc, fps. Calculate the solutions in both to make sure there is no anomaly. See if it is viable in QuickLOAD and accept it. Note: QuickLOAD and JBM have limitations.

 

[fseaman.js]

I'm guessing 257 Weatherby and the 6.5-300 Weatherby are going to be the top two for factory ammo for anything resembling a point blank range circle.

Yeah, and that is a legacy of Roy's goals.

 

[fseaman.js]

I can imagine some insanely off the chart numbers if there was a reloaded ammo database with non vetted data being uploaded. Exotic hand turned bullets.

That is an interesting part of the problem. "Salting" the database with nonsense is the same problem AmmoGuide faces.

Turns out, you can not just leave it to the users. It seems someone would "lie" to get their name behind "flattest ever".

Some gatekeeping will be required. It's required here. It would be nice if everyone could be trusted but that would put admins and moderators out of a job. I have been an admin as a BBS system operator in the 80s and 90s.

As for "Exotic hand turned", IMO, it would be a valid entry of it could be verified. BC and shooting solutions would have to be verified. There are ways. If someone can make a 6000fps 70 grain .224 I'm good with that. That is actually the point. Does point out that we will need a discerption entry so that the creator can explain the why and how of doing the amazing thing.

 

[Greatgrandad]

Well, my 26" 300RUM loaded with a 130 TTSX at 3,800 fps and zeroed at 300 yards is only 2.5" high at 200 and 10" low at 440 yards and 31" low at 600 yards, at my elevation of 7,500 ft.

The 257Wby loaded with an 80 TTSX at 3,850 fps zeroed at 300 yards is 2.5" high at 200 yards and 10" low at 440 yards with 32" low at 600 yards.

edit: My 22-250AI loaded with a 70 Berger VLD at 3,650 fps is 2,74" high at 200 yards, 10" low at 435 yards, and 33" low at 600.

edit: My 6mmRemAI pushes a 69 Berger VLD at 3,850 fps, and similarly is 2.53" high at 200 yards, 10" low at 440 and 32.5" low at 600 yards.

Most of my hunting rifles are zeroed for 300 yards here in the West, and I use 10" as PBR for most deer sized game.

 

[fseaman.js]

Well, my 26" 300RUM loaded with a 130 TTSX at 3,800 fps and zeroed at 300 yards is only 2.5" high at 200 and 10" low at 440 yards and 31" low at 600 yards, at my elevation of 7,500 ft.

The 257Wby loaded with an 80 TTSX at 3,850 fps zeroed at 300 yards is 2.5" high at 200 yards and 10" low at 440 yards with 32" low at 600 yards.

Most of my hunting rifles are zeroed for 300 yards here in the West, and I use 10" as PBR for most deer sized game.

I have a 30 inch 300 RUM, and a new "club" where I can actually shoot it for the first time in about 6 years. I relocated about 2000 miles and the "club" is newish. It would be a hoot to see how fast I can make it go. It's bench rest setup and it never occurred to me to give "speed" a go with it.

Elevation would have to be another thing to standardize on. DA, density altitude, effects actual trajectory significantly but if allowed to be manipulated... That is why submissions would need some validation.

 

[fseaman.js]

Well, my 26" 300RUM loaded with a 130 TTSX at 3,800 fps and zeroed at 300 yards is only 2.5" high at 200 and 10" low at 440 yards and 31" low at 600 yards, at my elevation of 7,500 ft.

Just for fun, I took one of my known correct QuickLOAD files for my 300 RUM, changed the bullet to the 130TTSX, threw in an available powder that I have and have used in the RUM before and with a 30 inch barrel QL predicts 4000 fps. Oh my, using Ron Spomer's data, that would be "flatter" than the 240 Weatherby to 300, ties or beats the 6.5-300 Weatherby at 500 and beats the 27 Nosler to 1000.

Would it really hit 4000fps? Only one way to find out. Find my MagnetoSpeed or get a Garmin and do it.