Federal does it again 😅

[Dirtrax]

I don't see this ever making conventional brass cartridges obsolete in any way. I am excited about it, but I must say I agree to disagree with you about fear. People might not be a fan of it or say it's hype or just not for them, but I can't really see anybody afraid of this thing being successful.

After all, the .22 rimfire is still the most sold and chambered cartridge on earth by a mile…very very old tech, a heeled bullet, unremarkable performance…but it works dang it and it's never going to leave. People still shoot blackpowder haha. We have e-bikes but bicycles still exist…Brass cases are extremely proven and I don't see them ever leaving, but more options and more performance to be realized is always welcome. I see this class of cartridges as perhaps complimenting the existing lineup of well established guns and ammo, not at all replacing them, ever.

PS, I looked back over our sales records at the gun store I work at…we're mainly just hunting rifles and shotguns. - and in the last 14 months the .30-06 Springfield is STILL the number one chambering we sell for new production centerfire rifles. None of the new kids have dethroned the king, at least not around here.

I'm just pondering, and you may well be right. I will absolutely concede that.

We don't reload 22 lr either and as you said it has incredible staying power.
Perhaps a steel cased 22 lr that clocks at 2200 fps? Maybe more? Who would pass on that?
.30-06 doing unthinkable velocities?
All I'm saying is be open to the inevitability of progress. Dudes running black powder and pounding round lead balls down their barrels could never imagine where we are now.

 

[Rifleman97]

What brass? Steel….unsizeable steel!


Federal, Winchester and Remington are why we have so much wildcating….their cartridge specs and reamer designs are a joke. Aka 300 WSM shooting 165gr bullets at 3400fps or some crap. All that overstuffed in a 2.83" oal.

The 300 WSM would be great at 3.2" action length with 190-212gr bullets, but those don't fit and really need/want a 9 twist.

My point….marketing was great so fast you can just point and shoot!

6.8 western wasn't bad….270 WSM, but fix the throat. Make it weaker, put bigger bullets in it…did fix the twist, so they have that.



Yea, you can bet that will be some high end presses and dies for this. I'm just not sure what the end game is here. Just play with quick load. What does 70-80ksi really get you?

While they were bringing along some good ideas, why not electronic ignition and the 5lb creepy trigger that went with that. Maybe some 7.1 mm bullets??

1. It's not unsizable. Federal claims they are working with a die manufacturer to have special made reloading dies made that work with normal presses about a year from now.

2. A good portion of recoil in rifles comes from the powder being pushed down the barrel. Getting a bullet to the same velocity with less powder will equate to less recoil. 80k PSI is just the start, they've tested the round and actions up to 110-115k psi according to Backfire on YouTube with no issues. I wouldn't be surprised to see 90k on some of the later iterations.

I'm not going to get one, but now that some people have been able to verify their crazy claims, I'll retract my earlier statement about it being useless. Backfire got 24-26" barrel PRC velocities out of a 16" barrel. That even blows the WSM's and SAUM's out of the water for short barreled performance. And it does so out of that short barrel with something like 15-20% less recoil because it burns so much less powder.

I forget which video it was, but one YouTuber had a chronograph set up and was getting something like 10-20fps ES. Not bad for federal ammo, and some other brands have supposedly gotten on board so I wouldn't be surprised to see single digit ES from the higher quality ammo companies like Nosler or Lapua if they're the ones on board

 

[Troutslayer2]

This is going to be a great upgrade for the 1 box a year shooter who will buy this because he's terrified of his RUM.

 

[lacajun]

I'm just pondering, and you may well be right. I will absolutely concede that.

We don't reload 22 lr either and as you said it has incredible staying power.
Perhaps a steel cased 22 lr that clocks at 2200 fps? Maybe more? Who would pass on that?
.30-06 doing unthinkable velocities?
All I'm saying is be open to the inevitability of progress. Dudes running black powder and pounding round lead balls down their barrels could never imagine where we are now.

Well said and totally agree. I am wanting to build a 20 inch 7mm solely for deer hunting. Here in north Louisiana I hunt pipe lines and cutovers out of box stands with a widow on 3-4 sides. It can be hard to wrangle a long gun inside a box stand at times swapping windows such...thus the 20 inch barrel. My shots range from 50 - 600 yards.I have a Tikka CTR donner rifle and was leaning towards a 280 AI but seriously considering the 7BC. I would put a VX6 HD on it, zero it and shoot nothing but 3 - 4 deer a year. A couple boxes of ammo would last me several years and I have plenty of other rifles to play with. I'm currently shooting 142 grn ABLR @ around 2550 out of a 260 CTR (20") so a 170grn pill at over 3000 FPS would be an upgrade. I will also add that I had to get a pacemaker a year ago and my Dr said I could still shoot but shy away from anything that would produce a big jolt. I sold a 300 RM, 300 SAUM and 3.5 12g shotgun.

 

[nwmnbowhunter]

Isn't the point of brass, is that it is malleable and seals off the chamber so it doesn't blow gas back down the action?

So they are making a harder steel case to handle higher pressure and to take a chunk of the pressure and then rely on the action/ barrel hold together?

Every factory rifle i have cannot handle even close to the pressure that my custom defiance/bat/ impact actions can.

And they are going to rely on savage- generic factory actions to hold all this pressure in?

Sounds like they are playing a very risky game where people's face- eyes- fingers could get involved in a hurry. I won't be surprised when actions start freezing up and potentially much worse.

 

[bultinkle]

m

2. A good portion of recoil in rifles comes from the powder being pushed down the barrel. Getting a bullet to the same velocity with less powder will equate to less recoil. 80k PSI is just the start, they've tested the round and actions up to 110-115k psi according to Backfire on YouTube with no issues. I wouldn't be surprised to see 90k on some of the later iterations.

what recoil formula has a good portion being due to powder mass?

Every formula I look at it's bullet mass and velocity and rifle weight that are the main variables, and a 10 grain powder mass change is estimating around 10% recoil difference

 

[asd9055]

what recoil formula has a good portion being due to powder mass?

Every formula I look at it's bullet mass and velocity and rifle weight that are the main variables, and a 10 grain powder mass change is estimating around 10% recoil difference

Check the formula in SAAMI and you will see that the weight of the powder is part of the formula

 

[arrow179]

what recoil formula has a good portion being due to powder mass?

Every formula I look at it's bullet mass and velocity and rifle weight that are the main variables, and a 10 grain powder mass change is estimating around 10% recoil difference

Some good info on recoil here: https://guns.fandom.com/wiki/Recoil_energy

 

[Quintus]

After chewing on this for a few days I am wondering if Federal and the gun makers KNOW that not long after Jan 20 Suppressors will be over the counter? If Federal is the first and only 80K case and all these gun makers can sell a rifle combo that comes with a can on a 20" barrel with the standard background check it may etch them in the here to stay column. We will see here maybe at SHOT if there are any other 'steel alloy' cases or similar solutions introduced and Federal just had theirs ready first?

 

[ka30270]

I think it has great potential but so did the 338 Federal, 224 Valkyrie, 327 Federal, 30 Super Carry...........

 

[bultinkle]

Check the formula in SAAMI and you will see that the weight of the powder is part of the formula

Some good info on recoil here: https://guns.fandom.com/wiki/Recoil_energy

Yes thank you both, as I said earlier I understand it has to have an effect.

My pause is on the definition of "good amount" when we are talking about likely saving less than or around 10 grains of powder on a 60-68 ish grain charge.

When looking at this formula if both bullet and velocity are the same from this theoretical situation and it's a 170 grain bullet @ 3000 with either a 60 grain charge or a 70 grain charge that's roughly 10-11% difference if charge velocity is constant.

Is charge velocity constant at a 20% pressure increase? My mind says probably not but I'm not sure

My point was as that formula states bullet mass and velocity are multiplied, while charge weight is multiplied by charge velocity then added

Given that charge weight is always the smallest of the variables here, it should have the least effect. Slightly more than dropping 10 grains in bullet weight, but not anything huge.

 

[Rifleman97]

Yes thank you both, as I said earlier I understand it has to have an effect.

My pause is on the definition of "good amount" when we are talking about likely saving less than or around 10 grains of powder on a 60-68 ish grain charge.

When looking at this formula if both bullet and velocity are the same from this theoretical situation and it's a 170 grain bullet @ 3000 with either a 60 grain charge or a 70 grain charge that's roughly 10-11% difference if charge velocity is constant.

Is charge velocity constant at a 20% pressure increase? My mind says probably not but I'm not sure

My point was as that formula states bullet mass and velocity are multiplied, while charge weight is multiplied by charge velocity then added

Given that charge weight is always the smallest of the variables here, it should have the least effect. Slightly more than dropping 10 grains in bullet weight, but not anything huge.

Out of curiosity I threw some random loads in the recoil calculator.

Constant: 175 grain bullet Going 2950fps
9lb rifle

7prc 76 grains of RL25= 32.7 Lbs of energy

7BC 65 grains, (unknown powder) = 28.8

32.7/28.8 =1.135 or 13.5% increase in recoil going from the BC up to the PRC.

28.8/32.7=0.881 or 12.9% reduction in recoil going the other way around.

So not quite the 15-20, however feeling it with your shoulder isn't exactly the same as calculating it. I can see why he thought it felt 15% less recoil as that's a pretty noticeable reduction in recoil. Going from 300 win mag territory down closer to 30-06 territory.

 

[bultinkle]

Out of curiosity I threw some random loads in the recoil calculator.

Constant: 175 grain bullet Going 2950fps
9lb rifle

7prc 76 grains of RL25= 32.7 Lbs of energy

7BC 65 grains, (unknown powder) = 28.8

32.7/28.8 =1.135 or 13.5% increase in recoil going from the BC up to the PRC.

28.8/32.7=0.881 or 12.9% reduction in recoil going the other way around.

So not quite the 15-20, however feeling it with your shoulder isn't exactly the same as calculating it. I can see why he thought it felt 15% less recoil as that's a pretty noticeable reduction in recoil. Going from 300 win mag territory down closer to 30-06 territory.

76 grains of rl25 is 8 grains over hornady book max, are you loading that?

 

[Hoss50]

Unless barrel manufacturers can innovate and figure out how to get more barrel life, these rounds don't seem very interesting.

This could push/force them to get better though.