Federal does it again 😅

[asd9055]

Yes thank you both, as I said earlier I understand it has to have an effect.

My pause is on the definition of "good amount" when we are talking about likely saving less than or around 10 grains of powder on a 60-68 ish grain charge.

When looking at this formula if both bullet and velocity are the same from this theoretical situation and it's a 170 grain bullet @ 3000 with either a 60 grain charge or a 70 grain charge that's roughly 10-11% difference if charge velocity is constant.

Is charge velocity constant at a 20% pressure increase? My mind says probably not but I'm not sure

My point was as that formula states bullet mass and velocity are multiplied, while charge weight is multiplied by charge velocity then added

Given that charge weight is always the smallest of the variables here, it should have the least effect. Slightly more than dropping 10 grains in bullet weight, but not anything huge.

I agree with you that, powder being half or less of the weight of the projectile to begin with, and just reducing the powder by a small fraction, the total recoild reduction will be a small percentage. For some of us, that small reduction might be the difference on how many rounds we shoot in a particular session.

I said it before, I will not be buying one because of finances, however I do welcome every innovation, large or small.

 

[Calvin45]

Unless barrel manufacturers can innovate and figure out how to get more barrel life, these rounds don't seem very interesting.

This could push/force them to get better though.

I wonder about hex boron-nitride treated polygonal rifling? Should wear less than lands and grooves no?

 

[Calvin45]

I will throw a bone to the detractors

If it is reload able I don't foresee light loads being as good as in brass cases. They probably NEED that high PSI to get any kind of chamber sealing obturation with steel, not like brass.

Of course this isn't something that a person would get just to load light but it's nice to have the option and I foresee problems with that…

 

[Chase723]

The idea behind this is likely the future of ammunition if the reloading component/possibility is real…which it likely is. IMHO I think it's great that we are being provided with a cartridge that will push a 155gr @ over 3000fps and a 170gr to 2920ish from a 16" barrel and allow for an extra round in the mag. That means with a full length suppressor you're looking at a total overall barrel length of 22-24". Furthermore, you can get that level of performance over the counter. Super handy. If you want to keep running a longer barrel then sweet, you get 3400-3500fps. Furthermore, my bet is that this case technology/metalurgy is going to get applied to common non proprietary cartridges in the near future. So, anyone hating on the 7BC can apply it to their 6.5 PRC, 30-06, etc.

 

[asd9055]

The idea behind this is likely the future of ammunition if the reloading component/possibility is real…which it likely is. IMHO I think it's great that we are being provided with a cartridge that will push a 155gr @ over 3000fps and a 170gr to 2920ish from a 16" barrel and allow for an extra round in the mag. That means with a full length suppressor you're looking at a total overall barrel length of 22-24". Furthermore, you can get that level of performance over the counter. Super handy. If you want to keep running a longer barrel then sweet, you get 3400-3500fps. Furthermore, my bet is that this case technology/metalurgy is going to get applied to common non proprietary cartridges in the near future. So, anyone hating on the 7BC can apply it to their 6.5 PRC, 30-06, etc.

This would be my wish. Load my 30.06 or .270 with a steel case and get higher MV. No need to buy another firearm.
I am in no rush to try anything. I will just enjoy watching the blogs and videos

 

[bultinkle]

I agree with you that, powder being half or less of the weight of the projectile to begin with, and just reducing the powder by a small fraction, the total recoild reduction will be a small percentage. For some of us, that small reduction might be the difference on how many rounds we shoot in a particular session.

I said it before, I will not be buying one because of finances, however I do welcome every innovation, large or small.

Yes I think I come of as a "hater" and I'm really not, I just don't think there is a free lunch here.

Personally I just want this case tech or even the sig hybrid brass in existing cartridges so I can hot rod 6.5 or 308 when I want to.

Whats better than trainer rifles/barrels? Being able to just change brass from practice 6.5 ammo to hunting 6.5prc performance without touching your rifle.

Now that sounds awesome to me

 

[arrow179]

After chewing on this for a few days I am wondering if Federal and the gun makers KNOW that not long after Jan 20 Suppressors will be over the counter? If Federal is the first and only 80K case and all these gun makers can sell a rifle combo that comes with a can on a 20" barrel with the standard background check it may etch them in the here to stay column. We will see here maybe at SHOT if there are any other 'steel alloy' cases or similar solutions introduced and Federal just had theirs ready first?

I hope you're right about the OTC on suppressors soon! I've been wanting to buy another one recently but have held off due to this very reason.

 

[Rifleman97]

76 grains of rl25 is 8 grains over hornady book max, are you loading that?

My bad, I was looking at powder charges for a much lighter bullet.

Based on the case size I mostly just assumed it was 10-12 grains smaller than the PRC, grabbed my book and looked at RL25 on the first page as around, rounded up to 76 for the sake of "worst case" for someone with a long throat with hot loads.

Being that the backcountry is a 30-06 bolt face and the PRC is magnum, I then estimated the case capacity based on 280 AI, which is around 67 grains water, vs the prc which is 82 grains water. I estimated 11 grains difference in case the steel case was thinner than the brass and was closer to 71 grains.

The math isn't meant to be dead accurate, just show the effects using 11 grains less powder can have on felt recoil. Apologies for the incorrect load data, I was being lazy. Proportioning it down to the real numbers should have similar felt difference, even if the numbers are not exact.

 

[Chase723]

Yes I think I come of as a "hater" and I'm really not, I just don't think there is a free lunch here.

Personally I just want this case tech or even the sig hybrid brass in existing cartridges so I can hot rod 6.5 or 308 when I want to.

Whats better than trainer rifles/barrels? Being able to just change brass from practice 6.5 ammo to hunting 6.5prc performance without touching your rifle.

Now that sounds awesome to me

I don't think there's free lunch here either but I don't think it'll cost that much. I think the recoil impulse will be a little snappier/faster but essentially the same as a 7PRC (which is apparent in the stuff posted online. Looks like the rifle recoils a little faster but doesn't really knock anyone around), especially with the 155s. I think barrel life could be a little less or similar to a 7PRC but better than a 28 Nosler/7mm RUM. In all regards though, realistically speaking, I think barrel life will be fine for pretty much everyone who uses it.

 

[bultinkle]

My bad, I was looking at powder charges for a much lighter bullet.

Based on the case size I mostly just assumed it was 10-12 grains smaller than the PRC, grabbed my book and looked at RL25 on the first page as around, rounded up to 76 for the sake of "worst case" for someone with a long throat with hot loads.

Being that the backcountry is a 30-06 bolt face and the PRC is magnum, I then estimated the case capacity based on 280 AI, which is around 67 grains water, vs the prc which is 82 grains water. I estimated 11 grains difference in case the steel case was thinner than the brass and was closer to 71 grains.

The math isn't meant to be dead accurate, just show the effects using 11 grains less powder can have on felt recoil. Apologies for the incorrect load data, I was being lazy. Proportioning it down to the real numbers should have similar felt difference, even if the numbers are not exact.

Yep, the big question will be how much the charge mass is Increased with the pressure increase, and if the charge velocity skyrockets with pressure and eats up the recoil advantage.

Anecdotally, with something like rl26, I've seen a HUGE recoil increase as a pressure sign. How much pressure was I running? No clue.

 

[fseaman.js]

what recoil formula has a good portion being due to powder mass?

Every formula I look at it's bullet mass and velocity and rifle weight that are the main variables, and a 10 grain powder mass change is estimating around 10% recoil difference

Most of the recoil estimates provided here are just powder based to very inaccurate. The bullet weight+velicity+powder speed+rifle weight is the better one but I don't know the link anymore.

Could you share it please.