Favorite 6.5 Cartridge

[65WSM]

I forgot to mention, MagPro, produced velocities faster than anything I tried with 140gr B-tips and ABs in the 270 WSM. I expected it to do amazing things in the 6.5 WSM at least with 120 B-tips or 123 Scenars or something. It produced velocities well behind even the single base IMR 7828. Nearly every powder was faster.

The one canidate powder I have not tested is Hodgdon H-1000 in the 6.5 WSM or 6.5-284. I bought 8 pounds of the stuff when it was first released, loaded it in the .264 Winchester Magnum and gave most of it away. It was not as productive as Reloader 25 with 120-140 gr bullets. Bruce Hodgdon was still alive then. He said that H-1000 was introduced to power 160 gr hunting bullets in the 7mm Remington Magnum. The Hodgdon maximum load was 72 gr of H-1000 behind 160 gr Partitions in the 7 Mag was too hot for 4 shooters I associated with and led to the conversation. I settled on 68gr for 3080 fps from a 24 inch barrel.

I intend to try Norma MRP and MRP2 when Hodgdon finally takes over distribution. Quickload shows these two powders might be productive. I suspect that they are just Reloader 22 and Reloader 25 with different labels.

Are there any powders that you would recommend for large case 6.5 cartridges I have not tried?

 

[MontanaRifleman]

I don't have any 6.5 Rifles at the moment so couldn't recommend any powders. I figured RL17 would be a little fast for the 6.5 WSM, but thought it might do OK when using a bore riding CE bullet in a nitrides barrel. I think that will change the dynamics in favor of RL17. RL17 and Superpefromance will be my primary candidates and if they don't work I'll try Retumbo. I think one of those 3 should work well.

 

[Outlaw6.0]

To mirror previous posts, I have to give my vote to N-570, thats what I run in my 6.5WSM (with the F210M). With the CEB sealtight band seated at/near the case mouth, I am able to achieve max pressure right around 100% case capacity. As 6.5 said, the kernels are HUGH, but my stick really likes it.


LTLR has suggested RL-19 in that case. RL-19 performed admirably in my Lazz Patriot, so it might deserve a look.

t

 

[65WSM]

I have to confess I do not know what a "CE" bullet is. The original Winchester bullets for the .264 Winchester Magnum were 2 diameter. From the point to the channelure they were "bore riding" and bore diameter. From the Channelure to the heel they were a full .264 land diameter. The 140 gr bullets had long shanks and the bore riding nose of the bullet was supposed to reduce bore friction and help them achieve the 3200 fps listed velocity. In the 1960s we had to believe what the two ammunition manufacturers put in their catalogs. In actual fact, the soft jacket of the 140gr Winchester bullet tended to engrave into the lands deeply on one side and go down the barrel at a cant. These bullets were famous for their "yaw" in flight and were less accurate than the handloaded Sierras. I would be suspect of similar "bore riding" experiments.

My latest barrel, an 8 twist Krieger for 6.5 WSM was nitrocarburized by the Melonite process. It was my third nitrocarburized barrel and all of my future barrels will also treated. I have used Hexagonal Boron Nitride coating for all of my bullets for four years.

I still suspect that R-17 will be best with the .260 Remington or 6.5 Creedmore with 120 or 123 grain bullets. It builds pressure quickly in the 6.5-284. It was the first powder I tried when I first got my gain twist Bartlein barrel with 129 and 120 gr bullets but the pressure curve was too steep for me even with coated bullets.

 

[65WSM]

The above was my last 300 yard group. I stopped after 4 shots because my spotter said he could only see two holes otherwise I would have shot all 5. 140gr Sierras at a pedestrian 3150 fps from a 28 inch number 3 fluted barrel. F215 igniting 66.5 gr of Retumbo. I shot 140 Berger Hybrids in the same session with N-570 but did not do as well. The 6.5 WSM 1885 Highwall weights under 10 lbs with a 8-32X Blackdiamond scope. It has detachable Talley mounts so I can switch to a lighter hunting scope and save a pound.

 

[Outlaw6.0]

Well, let me help a brother out!


Cutting Edge Bullets: AKA CEB's

Cutting Edge Bullets Welcome


130 CEBs in front of N-570 out of a 30" 6.5WSM- 5 @ 100yds:

 

[Greyfox]

I don't have any 6.5 Rifles at the moment so couldn't recommend any powders. I figured RL17 would be a little fast for the 6.5 WSM, but thought it might do OK when using a bore riding CE bullet in a nitrides barrel. I think that will change the dynamics in favor of RL17. RL17 and Superpefromance will be my primary candidates and if they don't work I'll try Retumbo. I think one of those 3 should work well.

I have tested a few powders, H4831sc, H1000, H4350, and Retumbo. In my 6.5x284's I found using Retumbo that I get high velocities, low ES, full case utilization, low relative pressures, and excellent accuracy.. I can't see why this wouldn't be worth a try with the larger capacity 6.5's because I have had similar experiences using Retumbo in my 338 Lapua. An added bonus is that it is very temperature stable as I have shot at temperatures ranging from 0F to 85F with no effect.

 

[DakotaGlockGuy]

Well, let me help a brother out!


Cutting Edge Bullets: AKA CEB's

Cutting Edge Bullets Welcome


130 CEBs in front of N-570 out of a 30" 6.5WSM- 5 @ 100yds:

Outlaw,

Is that an app you used for those measurements, or just superimposed them over a target pic? I thought I had seen an app, but can't remember where.

Thanks!

 

[65WSM]

Gray Fox

VV N-560 produces velocities that rival that of the larger case in 6.5-284. With a 26 inch 9 twist Bartlein I can get 3280 instrumental with 58 gr of VV N-560 powering 130 Accubonds. Retumbo comes into play in the larger cases that hold 10 more grains of powder. It still does not go faster than the N-560 in that smaller case. That is why my next rifle will be a 6.5-06 with a 40 degree shoulder. I have a new M-70 action (single piece floorplate) and a Bartlein barrel waiting for a Reamer and size die from CH4. I will cut a Wilson seater with the reamer. I have a 25-06 Redding bushing die for routine resizing. I will use Nosler 270 or 25-06 cases. So far my attempts at cases with the Redding bushing die have left me wanting the CH4 die on order. 270 brass will have to be reamed.

 

[trebark]

Outlaw,

Is that an app you used for those measurements, or just superimposed them over a target pic? I thought I had seen an app, but can't remember where.

Thanks!

I actually PM's Outlaw to ask about the program that plotted the group on the target. He responded with this FREE download!

On Target Download

 

[Greyfox]

Gray Fox

VV N-560 produces velocities that rival that of the larger case in 6.5-284. With a 26 inch 9 twist Bartlein I can get 3280 instrumental with 58 gr of VV N-560 powering 130 Accubonds. Retumbo comes into play in the larger cases that hold 10 more grains of powder. It still does not go faster than the N-560 in that smaller case. That is why my next rifle will be a 6.5-06 with a 40 degree shoulder. I have a new M-70 action (single piece floorplate) and a Bartlein barrel waiting for a Reamer and size die from CH4. I will cut a Wilson seater with the reamer. I have a 25-06 Redding bushing die for routine resizing. I will use Nosler 270 or 25-06 cases. So far my attempts at cases with the Redding bushing die have left me wanting the CH4 die on order. 270 brass will have to be reamed.

Thanks for the info, I have not tried the VV powders. I'll have to give them a try. Overall though, beind a deer/antelope hunter out to 1000 yards or a little more, I have had great success with my 6.5x284's running around 3000 FPS with 140 Berger Hunting VLD's.

 

[65WSM]

My short action Model 70 magazine is better suited to the 130 Accubond. I have two 6.5 WSMs for the 140 gr bullets and still the 130 has such a head start in velocity that it is hard to beat on game and it fits into the magazine. Have you tried the 130 Berger VLD? Does it have to be seated into the lands?

 

[MontanaRifleman]

To mirror previous posts, I have to give my vote to N-570, thats what I run in my 6.5WSM (with the F210M). With the CEB sealtight band seated at/near the case mouth, I am able to achieve max pressure right around 100% case capacity. As 6.5 said, the kernels are HUGH, but my stick really likes it.

t

Yup, you have been getting great results for sure with N-570. I have had some great results with RL17 in a couple of cartridges and when it works, it gives me 200 fps more velocity than next fastest powders which would be H4350 in the 300 WSM and Retumbo in the 25-06. I think that nitriding my barrel will reduce the pressure curve allowing me to use a faster burning powder like RL17. like I've mentioned in other posts, this is just a theory so we will see. If RL17, SP, or Retumbo don't deliver good velocities, I might try N5-70 but if your getting 100% capicity without a nitrided barrel, I suspect it may be too slow for a nitrded barrel.

Did you try 215's at all? Maybe I'll try 215's and 210's. I like the idea of using 215's in case of extreme cold temps.

I have to confess I do not know what a "CE" bullet is. The original Winchester bullets for the .264 Winchester Magnum were 2 diameter. From the point to the channelure they were "bore riding" and bore diameter. From the Channelure to the heel they were a full .264 land diameter. The 140 gr bullets had long shanks and the bore riding nose of the bullet was supposed to reduce bore friction and help them achieve the 3200 fps listed velocity. In the 1960s we had to believe what the two ammunition manufacturers put in their catalogs. In actual fact, the soft jacket of the 140gr Winchester bullet tended to engrave into the lands deeply on one side and go down the barrel at a cant. These bullets were famous for their "yaw" in flight and were less accurate than the handloaded Sierras. I would be suspect of similar "bore riding" experiments.

My latest barrel, an 8 twist Krieger for 6.5 WSM was nitrocarburized by the Melonite process. It was my third nitrocarburized barrel and all of my future barrels will also treated. I have used Hexagonal Boron Nitride coating for all of my bullets for four years.

I still suspect that R-17 will be best with the .260 Remington or 6.5 Creedmore with 120 or 123 grain bullets. It builds pressure quickly in the 6.5-284. It was the first powder I tried when I first got my gain twist Bartlein barrel with 129 and 120 gr bullets but the pressure curve was too steep for me even with coated bullets.

The CE bullets have a great design IMO. I've done some initial load work in my 300 RUM with them and they produced about 40-50 fps more velocity than other bullets of the same weight. They were also the most accurate bullets I loaded for in my RUM including Bergers. I agree with your assesment of RL17 in the 260 Rem and Creedmore under the normal circumstnaces but I think nitriding changes the dynamics. I might be wrong, but I'm going to give it a go.

I have tested a few powders, H4831sc, H1000, H4350, and Retumbo. In my 6.5x284's I found using Retumbo that I get high velocities, low ES, full case utilization, low relative pressures, and excellent accuracy.. I can't see why this wouldn't be worth a try with the larger capacity 6.5's because I have had similar experiences using Retumbo in my 338 Lapua. An added bonus is that it is very temperature stable as I have shot at temperatures ranging from 0F to 85F with no effect.

I agree about Retumbo being very stable and producing good velocities. It is my go to powder for the 300 RUM. I suspect that Superperformance is also stable since Hornady uses it for some of it's Superperformance ammo. This should be an interesting project for me. A whole lot of new territory to cover.

 

[DakotaGlockGuy]

I actually PM's Outlaw to ask about the program that plotted the group on the target. He responded with this FREE download!

On Target Download

Awesome. Thanks!