Fast Twist 270 Win vs. 6.8 Western

[ButterBean]

I can be confident because both the theoretical and anecdotal data back it up. In your first hand experience, under what circumstances will an 8-10% increase in useable case capacity result in a net loss of performance when cases of moderate capacity are loaded to comparable specs? Can a 7mm SAUM out run a 280 Rem when both are shot with optimized loads at the same pressures in equivalent barrels? How about a 6.5 SAUM and a 6.5-06? How about the 6mm Dasher and a 243 Win?Those are very similar comparisons to make and based on my personal experience with those cases, capacity wins every time in a fair comparison.

The other side of that is the 300 Win compared to the 300 PRC and 30 Nosler. When they're all loaded to the same specs with optimized loads, there isn't a meaningful difference between them. Broz did a lot of hands on work with those cases and came to the same conclusion.

There is a point when additional case capacity won't give a meaningful increase in performance just because you hit the limits of modern powder. That's why cases like the 338 XC and 338 Enablr are able to keep up with the 338 SnipeTac. I've experienced that first hand when working with both the SnipeTac and the XC. That's an extreme example though where even the slowest powders available are too fast for a case of that size when using heavy bullets.

It's folks like you that put a smile on my face, you just can't get out the way of yourself fast enough, I'll leave you be so's you concentrate on your theoretical and anecdotal data , I believe I'm gonna go bang some targets with my old antique 270 and leave all the worrying to you , You have a good day now Ya'hear

 

[budlight]

I read the articles and they claimed 6.8 W case is 10% less than 270 WSM. If it was 10% smaller volume it would be near a 270 Win or possibly a grain or 2 larger. So it would beat out a 270 win if it can exceed the 62.5 gr.

I've shot highly compressed loads with 62.5 grains in a 270 win case and 70 grains in a 270WSM Ramshot Magnum and Retumbo. I had to use a tall drop tube on the 270 win. I never bought R-33 to test with 169.5 & 175's

 

[vancewalker007]

You got that right!!. Every time a new chambering comes out. They compare theirs with a 26" barrel to a 24" barrel in that caliber. Most are powder burners by 10+ grains more for not much difference in velocity. They are selling firearms, which is their business. Everybody has to kept up with the Jone's. The other problem is newer reloading manuals they don't add newer cartrigde, and their powder selection is limited. The only that's even close is Sierra. Here as of late I have updated my reloading manuals, and was disappointed in most of them. I ever throw out my old reloading manual either. The newer manuals are showing faster twist rates, and leaving off slower twist rates. One for sure is the 220 swift which was 1-14 twist rate now being shown as 1-12. They really slowed down the 55gr bullet down by several hundred fps.

Its funny, I've lived so long without reloading data shooting and reloading for 3 non-Gunwerks 7mm LRMs for years I don't even think much about what is or isn't in a manual. For these rifles I used old minimum data data from an old manual for a 7mm Weatherby as a starting point. Then I shot powder ladders easing up the loads 0.2gr to carefully find each rifle's real max. Time consuming but I enjoy being at the range.

The printed manuals do seem to lag but I think that's because the internet makes the publishers of them a little lazy since with a few button presses they can pop a set of data out on their web site.

 

[yorke-1]

It's folks like you that put a smile on my face, you just can't get out the way of yourself fast enough, I'll leave you be so's you concentrate on your theoretical and anecdotal data , I believe I'm gonna go bang some targets with my old antique 270 and leave all the worrying to you , You have a good day now Ya'hear

It's unfortunate that you feel like you need to opt out of the discussion. If you have relevant experience to counter anything I've said, I'd love to hear it. Everything I've said is true to the best of my knowledge and experience. I'd like to hear whatever your experiences have been, especially if they contradict what I've seen.

I read the articles and they claimed 6.8 W case is 10% less than 270 WSM. If it was 10% smaller volume it would be near a 270 Win or possibly a grain or 2 larger. So it would beat out a 270 win if it can exceed the 62.5 gr.

I've shot highly compressed loads with 62.5 grains in a 270 win case and 70 grains in a 270WSM Ramshot Magnum and Retumbo. I had to use a tall drop tube on the 270 win. I never bought R-33 to test with 169.5 & 175's

It's not 10% less capacity than a 270 WSM. Based on the SAAMI chamber drawings the 6.8 Western is just a 270 WSM which has been shortened by .080". That wouldn't reduce capacity by 10%..

 

[ButterBean]

Well it looks like they figured out who Gator Trapper is

 

[Goldengun]

I'd rather spend my money on a new rifle or new build.

 

[vancewalker007]

6 of one, half dozen of another. Kinda like the 6.5-284 vs 6.5 PRC. The only advantage to the new 6.8 W is it's faster barrel allowing longer heavier bullets to stabilize and the cartridge OAL is right around 3.00 with the long heavy bullets allowing it to be used in a short action rifle. Beyond that, no real advantage ballistically over the .270win.

But that's a huge advantage for people that buy off the shelf rifles and ammo which is where this new round is going to serve. To us that use hand loads and custom or semi custom rifles it's not a big deal. But to the market Winchester mainly serves it's a big step forward in a SAAMI spec'd cartridge over the WSMs for extended range shooting in a light package.

 

[VLD Pilot]

But that's a huge advantage for people that buy off the shelf rifles and ammo which is where this new round is going to serve. To us that use hand loads and custom or semi custom rifles it's not a big deal. But to the market Winchester mainly serves it's a big step forward in a SAAMI spec'd cartridge over the WSMs for extended range shooting in a light package.

Absolutely. I keep hearing guys say "Big deal" just another 270 WSM. Maybe cartridge wise but the fact that Winchester and Browning are building the 6.8 in fast twist barrels, really makes the cartridge shine with increased weight bullets for longer range big game. Means very little to many building there own rifles and ammo but the guys buying it all, it's huge

 

[budlight]

Information video

 

[Hard rock]

The reason I prefer the .270 versus the 6.8 Western is easy. Components! So if you can't find 6.5PRC brass do you think this 6.8 brass will readily available? There is nothing the 6.8 can do that the .270 won't match. Stop nonsense over barrel length too. Same crap comparing wsm's to belted mags on barrel length. Not fair! Trim barrel down to match the wsm. Whah! If you want a short rifle, go for it! To demand other cartridges to do same is . Bigger cases need more burn time and I don't mind longer barrels at all. The 300WM sings with 26+" barrels. The .270 case has the capacity for longer barrel burn time = more velocity.

I've already stated in past posts the 6.8 will be good for those who don't reload and want long range option but to say a .270 cannot do same is wrong IMO. A faster twist barrel will still shoot 130's fine so factory ammo is still on table. So Components, factory ammo, heavier high BC bullets, great new powders, build components from every gun maker still give .270 long range capability that is pretty darn good and for lot of us on LRH a better option.

 

[Shootin4fun]

If you want it, build it.

My only point is that there is nothing really "new" about all these new cartridges.

Case in point, from 1910: The 280 Ross. The original factory loads included a 180 grain FMJ spitzer bullet at a muzzle velocity (MV) of 2800 fps, and a 146 grain spitzer hunting bullet at a MV of 3100 fps. (with a 28" bbl).

It was an unbelted Magnum long before they were "discovered" a few years ago.

Ross cases can be made from RUM cases -------

Not much new because shooting is a mature sport. Most of the new cartridges are variations on a theme, and the themes already suffice. It's not like electronics where quantum leaps are made. There was no such thing as AI 40 years ago.

Nevertheless, just like with old school cars with gasoline burning engines, people like different engines, injection systems, etc., they also like to try different cartridges. It doesn't mean that cartridge will do something another one won't. Even in the development of high BC bullets, there have been good incremental improvements. A rifle or pistol that projected a lethally powerful laser beam would be a quantum leap.

It's nice to have choices. If you don't like having them, don't worry, they will start going away as the modern world crumbles. Record setting wildfires and extreme weather patterns are just the beginning. The front of the Titanic is already touching the iceberg. Smoke is about to ruin deer season in several states. Unless you like hiking in what looks like Los Angeles smog in the 1970s.

 

[VLD Pilot]

Not much new because shooting is a mature sport. Most of the new cartridges are variations on a theme, and the themes already suffice. It's not like electronics where quantum leaps are made. There was no such thing as AI 40 years ago.

Nevertheless, just like with old school cars with gasoline burning engines, people like different engines, injection systems, etc., they also like to try different cartridges. It doesn't mean that cartridge will do something another one won't. Even in the development of high BC bullets, there have been good incremental improvements. A rifle or pistol that projected a lethally powerful laser beam would be a quantum leap.

It's nice to have choices. If you don't like having them, don't worry, they will start going away as the modern world crumbles. Record setting wildfires and extreme weather patterns are just the beginning. The front of the Titanic is already touching the iceberg. Smoke is about to ruin deer season in several states. Unless you like hiking in what looks like Los Angeles smog in the 1970s.

Covid ruins a lot more than deer seasons. We got thru that, we'll get thru most anything. Even the Radical left and their "Theories". That's the biggest threat to your state. You guys are use to fires. Hell, they let rioters burn down a bunch of cities so fires is a way if life in CA these days.

 

[wkdwdg66]

Not much new because shooting is a mature sport. Most of the new cartridges are variations on a theme, and the themes already suffice. It's not like electronics where quantum leaps are made. There was no such thing as AI 40 years ago.

Nevertheless, just like with old school cars with gasoline burning engines, people like different engines, injection systems, etc., they also like to try different cartridges. It doesn't mean that cartridge will do something another one won't. Even in the development of high BC bullets, there have been good incremental improvements. A rifle or pistol that projected a lethally powerful laser beam would be a quantum leap.

It's nice to have choices. If you don't like having them, don't worry, they will start going away as the modern world crumbles. Record setting wildfires and extreme weather patterns are just the beginning. The front of the Titanic is already touching the iceberg. Smoke is about to ruin deer season in several states. Unless you like hiking in what looks like Los Angeles smog in the 1970s.

I have 3 AI rifles from way more than 40 years ago.......

 

[Joshuaham]

I can't find a faster twist barrel for my 270 it's an M77mk2. Want a 1:8.5 I think