exploding bullets on impact...is this real or are people guessing?

[J E Custom]

You obviously shoot soft bullets. Try a monolithic, even at high speed they may shed some weight but they penetrate feet of elk and moose after smashing bones. Ive also never seen a partition explode for that matter. But other cup and core bullets do have a velocity limitation and can blow up on game.

This is what I am talking about in slow motion.


The bullet will fragment or even melt, but to Explode, it must have an explosive charge inside it. As far is I know, exploding bullets start at the 50 BMG size because smaller bullets don't have the room inside to hold any explosives or they just haven't be designed yet.and go up from there.

We all sometimes use this term, but it describes something else so I prefer to use the term disintegrates or fragments. Even the solid dangerous game bullets will melt of fragment if it strikes something hard enough and leave almost no sign of a bullet left.

On game, there are different degrees of fragmentation depending on the game, the point of impact and the bullet construction.

J E CUSTOM

 

[Jared2700]

You'll find out real quick that there are a handful of guys are here who are Hammer supporters and everything else is stupid type people. For some reason in their mind, getting behind a barnes bullet is somehow bad mouthing hammers. I don't know if they get free hammer bullets or what. There will be a thread asking whether they should go with the eldx or the eldm and some idiot will inevitably scream out hammer. I know I am new, but the bias is incredibly easy to see and super annoying. Especially on a long range site.

Than

You'll find out real quick that there are a handful of guys are here who are Hammer supporters and everything else is stupid type people. For some reason in their mind, getting behind a barnes bullet is somehow bad mouthing hammers. I don't know if they get free hammer bullets or what. There will be a thread asking whether they should go with the eldx or the eldm and some idiot will inevitably scream out hammer. I know I am new, but the bias is incredibly easy to see and super annoying. Especially on a long range site.

I couldn't agree more. It's really about terminal performance that matters. Dead is dead. I just don't like chasing the animals or feeling like crap that it was wounded. I been with people who think they are going to knock the deer off its feet. And then to their surprise it runs off sometime never to be found. Use proper tools for the work you plan to do is what I say. Plus you'll spend less time and money trying to put meat in the freezer. Know you and your equipments capabilities rather that's 100yds. Or 1000+. Don't wreak your hunt by doing things you wish you wouldn't have. Have a good night!

 

[Orange Dust]

This is what I am talking about in slow motion.


The bullet will fragment or even melt, but to Explode, it must have an explosive charge inside it. As far is I know, exploding bullets start at the 50 BMG size because smaller bullets don't have the room inside to hold any explosives or they just haven't be designed yet.and go up from there.

We all sometimes use this term, but it describes something else so I prefer to use the term disintegrates or fragments. Even the solid dangerous game bullets will melt of fragment if it strikes something hard enough and leave almost no sign of a bullet left.

On game, there are different degrees of fragmentation depending on the game, the point of impact and the bullet construction.

J E CUSTOM

Cool video. Thanks for sharing.

 

[Speyrod]

I have read many threads over the years about bullets blowing up on impact and not being a lethal hit with game such as a deer. My questions are as follows:

1. Has anyone ever witnessed a bullet actually blow up on impact with a deer, and not kill the deer? and what I mean by this is you were able to get a second shot on the deer and actually see the first shot in autopsy to confirm and not guess what happened.

2. If your answer to 1 is YES, I just do not get the physics of this so maybe someone can explain it to me. I just don't understand how a 140+ grain object going 2800+FPS can explode, even on bone, and the fragments do not still penetrate to the vitals.

I have used ballistic tips in the past in excess of 3000fps and while they definitely "blew up" inside the deer, they still took the deer out no problem. Ive yet to have one blow up on a shoulder and not had fragments penetrate to lungs and heart.

I just got back from a hunt in Colorado and had this happen to me. Mule deer at 100 yards. 28 Nosler 180Grn Berger VLD Hunting MV 3082. The deer was quartered away from me. I hit it at the point of the shoulder and the bullet blew up on impact. Wound was no more than 2" deep and roughly 4" across. The deer went down on impact but then started to get up. Fortunately we covered the distance quickly and finished the job. When I skinned the deer I found a broken shoulder from impact but no bullet penetration past that, it did not carry through nor did it fragment. I did not find any bullet fragment in the body cavity. Was very disappointed with the results. When discussing with the guy who does load development for me he stated that he's had several of this complaints with this bullet this year. I understand its a great bullet for long range hunting, but personally I'm not asking a bull or buck to move to 300 plus yards to shoot it. Back to my Accubonds which have never failed me.

 

[memtb]

After reading 9 pages of cup and core bullet "fragmenting" failures, and experiencing one myself in 1986.....I feel completely justified with my decision to go to mono's in the early '90's. A decision, I have yet to regret! memtb

 

[CVCOBRA1]

I just got back from a hunt in Colorado and had this happen to me. Mule deer at 100 yards. 28 Nosler 180Grn Berger VLD Hunting MV 3082. The deer was quartered away from me. I hit it at the point of the shoulder and the bullet blew up on impact. Wound was no more than 2" deep and roughly 4" across. The deer went down on impact but then started to get up. Fortunately we covered the distance quickly and finished the job. When I skinned the deer I found a broken shoulder from impact but no bullet penetration past that, it did not carry through nor did it fragment. I did not find any bullet fragment in the body cavity. Was very disappointed with the results. When discussing with the guy who does load development for me he stated that he's had several of this complaints with this bullet this year. I understand its a great bullet for long range hunting, but personally I'm not asking a bull or buck to move to 300 plus yards to shoot it. Back to my Accubonds which have never failed me.

I do understand that the Berger VLD Hunting bullets are questionable. How did your situation work out that "it blew up on impact" but yet "did not fragment"? Creating a wound that size? I agree with your choice to go back to Accubonds or even the good ole partitions.

 

[Jared2700]

This is what I am talking about in slow motion.


The bullet will fragment or even melt, but to Explode, it must have an explosive charge inside it. As far is I know, exploding bullets start at the 50 BMG size because smaller bullets don't have the room inside to hold any explosives or they just haven't be designed yet.and go up from there.

We all sometimes use this term, but it describes something else so I prefer to use the term disintegrates or fragments. Even the solid dangerous game bullets will melt of fragment if it strikes something hard enough and leave almost no sign of a bullet left.

On game, there are different degrees of fragmentation depending on the game, the point of impact and the bullet construction.

J E CUSTOM

I think all of us understand that the bullets we shoot have no explosive in them. We are talking about disruption of the materials the bullets are made of and why the come complete apart. I've seen deer with 8" on fur displaced from a bullet and they were never dead, just missing fur. This is what we are talk about. You can get explosive incendiary rounds but they would be illegal to use in any state.

 

[Bigeclipse]

Thanks everyone for the comments. I am shooting a 6.5prc using Hornady factory loaded 143ELDx bullets. It sounds for shots inside 300 yards I need to be extra diligent to stay off the shoulder and target the lungs (which is typically what I am at regardless). Once the season is done, I will switch to either Nosler accubonds or similar type bonded or monolithic bullets since my hunting is inside 400 yards on deer anyways.

 

[Jared2700]

Thanks everyone for the comments. I am shooting a 6.5prc using Hornady factory loaded 143ELDx bullets. It sounds for shots inside 300 yards I need to be extra diligent to stay off the shoulder and target the lungs (which is typically what I am at regardless). Once the season is done, I will switch to either Nosler accubonds or similar type bonded or monolithic bullets since my hunting is inside 400 yards on deer anyways.

My brother used these same rounds and you are correct, stay away from a direct hit to the shoulder. Even then it did the job on two different deer and both of them were hit back further. But both left the area where they were shot and needed to be tracked down. If it were me I would buy different bullets. Maybe Nosler or Barnes. But I understand that you are probably on with this load and don't want to change midstream. Good luck on your hunt.

 

[Jared2700]

After reading 9 pages of cup and core bullet "fragmenting" failures, and experiencing one myself in 1986.....I feel completely justified with my decision to go to mono's in the early '90's. A decision, I have yet to regret! memtb

How expensive are these Mono bullets you are talking about? Are they factory?

 

[memtb]

How expensive are these Mono bullets you are talking about? Are they factory?

Yes, factory Barnes. Not terribly expensive as compared to one tank of fuel used when hunting!

I started with the old, original X Bullet. I had excellent performance, my first kill was an elk. The shot was lengthwise, end to end, with the recovered bullet losing one petal. Though, accuracy wasn't great ....1 3/4" or so at 100 yards. I stayed with Barnes as they continually improved their technology. We took the same path with my wife's rifle, though we got to the TTSX's much earlier....as Barnes did not offer a bullet weight in TTSX that I wanted to use in my rifle!

The "only" animals requiring a second shot (very few), were due to poor placement with the first. To date,we've only recovered two bullets.....with two moose, one bear, numerous elk, and many deer/antelope used as test subjects! memtb

 

[Bigeclipse]

My brother used these same rounds and you are correct, stay away from a direct hit to the shoulder. Even then it did the job on two different deer and both of them were hit back further. But both left the area where they were shot and needed to be tracked down. If it were me I would buy different bullets. Maybe Nosler or Barnes. But I understand that you are probably on with this load and don't want to change midstream. Good luck on your hunt.

Yeah, Unfortunately our opening day is tomorrow. Are you saying that even off the shoulder, the deer were not penetrated to the vitals and had to be tracked for follow-up shots OR are you saying hit off the shoulder, they still ran but died within say 100 yards and just needed the typical blood tracking job?

 

[bearcat2]

Yes, factory Barnes. Not terribly expensive as compared to one tank of fuel used when hunting!

I started with the old, original X Bullet. I had excellent performance, my first kill was an elk. The shot was lengthwise, end to end, with the recovered bullet losing one petal. Though, accuracy wasn't great ....1 3/4" or so at 100 yards. I stayed with Barnes as they continually improved their technology. We took the same path with my wife's rifle, though we got to the TTSX's much earlier....as Barnes did not offer a bullet weight in TTSX that I wanted to use in my rifle!

The "only" animals requiring a second shot (very few), were due to poor placement with the first. To date,we've only recovered two bullets.....with two moose, one bear, numerous elk, and many deer/antelope used as test subjects! memtb

I tried the Barnes bullets probably fifteen years ago when they had been out a few years and were hyped in every hunting magazine around. Never did use them on game because I could never get them to group satisfactorily (1 3/4" is a lot tighter than I could get out of my 270, I think I finally found a load that shrunk groups to a tad under 3") Finally loaded the last of them up in reduced loads (as in book minimum) for my nine year old brother-in-law to shoot at targets a couple months ago. Tried them in my STW with similar results and while others swear by them I have never tried them again.

I thought the idea was good, and for liberal states like California that banned lead they are necessary. But between the lack of accuracy I experienced and the extra size needed to get the heavier weight bullets I never felt an urge to try them again. I have loaded them for a couple people who brought me the components and already had a load worked up they wanted me to duplicate, but I never actually shot those to see how they performed. And those people were unlikely to take 200+ yard shots anyways, so the minimum accuracy bar was a lot lower.

 

[greenejc]

I have read many threads over the years about bullets blowing up on impact and not being a lethal hit with game such as a deer. My questions are as follows:

1. Has anyone ever witnessed a bullet actually blow up on impact with a deer, and not kill the deer? and what I mean by this is you were able to get a second shot on the deer and actually see the first shot in autopsy to confirm and not guess what happened.

2. If your answer to 1 is YES, I just do not get the physics of this so maybe someone can explain it to me. I just don't understand how a 140+ grain object going 2800+FPS can explode, even on bone, and the fragments do not still penetrate to the vitals.

I have used ballistic tips in the past in excess of 3000fps and while they definitely "blew up" inside the deer, they still took the deer out no problem. Ive yet to have one blow up on a shoulder and not had fragments penetrate to lungs and heart.

Yes, bullet blow up will occur when the impact of the bullet is high enough to exceed the tinsel strength of the bullet's jacket. The original Ballistic tip had a copper alloy jacket that was soft and it was not a good bullet for close shots with a 300 Winmag. It worked great in a 30-06, but at impact speeds over 2750 or so it would come apart in heavy muscle and not always penetrate. Nosler identified the problem and I think they changed the jacket material alloy to correct this. You can read about bullet blow up on the BallisticStudies.com website. Their information is backed up by extensive studies done in hunting conditions.