liltank
Well-Known Member
Actually at Williamsport benchrest heavy gun class, it was about 45% NF, 50% Leupold and about 5% other brands. The NF are quite common in benchrest with target dot reticule.
Tank
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What is a real tactical scope?
- Thread starter straightshooter
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Actually at Williamsport benchrest heavy gun class, it was about 45% NF, 50% Leupold and about 5% other brands. The NF are quite common in benchrest with target dot reticule.
Tank
Wow there is a lot of if ands and buts in here lately.... First off i know alot of machinist and some of them are extremely good at what they do but without first hand knowledge of how NF makes there turrets there is no way in hell they could ever take one and duplicate it. That being said...
They are one of the best scopes on the market because they hold zero and when you click it 12.5 minutes they move 12.5 minutes and come back to zero without any problems. That first of all i have almost never seen happen in any other scope i have owed. They all have problems like this that have made me scratch my head and funny enough these problems stopped when i started using NF optics. The other problems being glass falling out, power adjustment stopped working (froze up), turrets falling off track, and just many other problems that i just have never had with NF. I just recently had my first problem with my first BR NF scope. Its the oldest one i have and it had something rattling around in it. I would have never noticed if i didnt have it off the other week because it still function perfectly. Its going back soon they said no problem it will come back to you in like new condition. Its tough to beat that.
There is a huge difference between "hype" and performance. Maybe it just the fact i expect more out of a scope then most. But when it comes to the best i have rarely seen anything that will compare to a NF...
bobby
They are one of the best scopes on the market because they hold zero and when you click it 12.5 minutes they move 12.5 minutes and come back to zero without any problems. That first of all i have almost never seen happen in any other scope i have owed. They all have problems like this that have made me scratch my head and funny enough these problems stopped when i started using NF optics. The other problems being glass falling out, power adjustment stopped working (froze up), turrets falling off track, and just many other problems that i just have never had with NF. I just recently had my first problem with my first BR NF scope. Its the oldest one i have and it had something rattling around in it. I would have never noticed if i didnt have it off the other week because it still function perfectly. Its going back soon they said no problem it will come back to you in like new condition. Its tough to beat that.
There is a huge difference between "hype" and performance. Maybe it just the fact i expect more out of a scope then most. But when it comes to the best i have rarely seen anything that will compare to a NF...
bobby
RMulhern
Well-Known Member
MTBULLET
Me thinks you need to wake up and smell the coffee my friend! As for the 'most people' comment....when it comes down to the nut-cuttin....MOST PEOPLE just need a Remington 742 Semi-Auto in '06..as for what they need! Over a period of 60 years of shooting; competition and hunting I have used every make/brand of scope available and I can tell anyone that the top of the line in my book is the NightForce Scope! So-called 'hype' isn't what it's all about; rather its PERFORMANCE! I don't represent NF optics or make one dime off of making any comment reference the NF brand...rather my comments come from my personal usage of said product with many shots fired in the field and on the target range! It's a real comfort to me to know that when I lay down on the 1000 yd. firing line and crank 27 1/4 MOA on my NF scope that if I get the wind right...my first sighter shot will be exactly where I want it elevation-wise......EVERY TIME! This hasn't happened with all the other scopes; even the very good Unertl scopes I've used in the past!
If the proof is in the puffing...that goes double for the proof is in the shootin!
The US Army 'Praslick Team' won the Herrick Trophy Match at Perry in 2005, 2006, and 2007, and set a record which had not been broken in over 20 years. This is a 1000 yard Any Any match involving 4 different shooters firing from the prone position using only a sling for support. These 4 shooters put all 88 shots, including sighters, inside a 17" group inside the 10 and X ring. Their scopes?? NIGHTFORCE!
PERFORMANCE....not hype!!
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MTBULLET
Me thinks you need to wake up and smell the coffee my friend! As for the 'most people' comment....when it comes down to the nut-cuttin....MOST PEOPLE just need a Remington 742 Semi-Auto in '06..as for what they need! Over a period of 60 years of shooting; competition and hunting I have used every make/brand of scope available and I can tell anyone that the top of the line in my book is the NightForce Scope! So-called 'hype' isn't what it's all about; rather its PERFORMANCE! I don't represent NF optics or make one dime off of making any comment reference the NF brand...rather my comments come from my personal usage of said product with many shots fired in the field and on the target range! It's a real comfort to me to know that when I lay down on the 1000 yd. firing line and crank 27 1/4 MOA on my NF scope that if I get the wind right...my first sighter shot will be exactly where I want it elevation-wise......EVERY TIME! This hasn't happened with all the other scopes; even the very good Unertl scopes I've used in the past!
If the proof is in the puffing...that goes double for the proof is in the shootin!
The US Army 'Praslick Team' won the Herrick Trophy Match at Perry in 2005, 2006, and 2007, and set a record which had not been broken in over 20 years. This is a 1000 yard Any Any match involving 4 different shooters firing from the prone position using only a sling for support. These 4 shooters put all 88 shots, including sighters, inside a 17" group inside the 10 and X ring. Their scopes?? NIGHTFORCE!
PERFORMANCE....not hype!!
Sharps, thanks, I LOVE the smell of coffee ! But, once again, you seem to have missed my point , If you took the time to read before runnin' off again you would see I mention DURABILITY. Thats what NF and U.S. offer, and agin, I don't think the most shooter s need it. I have/own./use both NF and US, but do I have them on ALL my rifles, no, because that durability isn't required/needed. Leupold/Horus, etc. are just fine, because I don't use THOSE rifles in a life/death situation, just hunting and shooting things a "long way" away.
RMulhern
Well-Known Member
MTBULLET
I'm proud you LOVE the smell of coffee!
Rather than 'runnin off'....I'm very thorough at reading and my comprehension is pretty good however you also mentioned this:
" they just fall for the "hype" and "wow"
which could infer that MOST just fall for the advertising. My point being that oft times...it's rather the PERFORMANCE for many shooters..that really makes the difference on what they buy!
Both me and sharps agree that its not DURABILITY that makes these scopes a top choice. Its the performance even though the durability is very nice. If you think a leup-hole scope will track the way a NF does, your wrong. Yes i love the fact that they are as tough as they are but its the way they work that i love so much about them. There is not a more reliable scope out there then a NF.
straightshooter
Well-Known Member
I know that you guys are going to think I am an idiot, but I have a swfa ss that I will put up against your Nightforce for tracking. Now I am not saying that it can compete with a Nightforce in quality, and I have only had this scope for 3 years so I can't say how durable it will turn out to be, but this sucker tracks absolutely perfect every time. If a guy wants a cheap scope for a few years till they can save for a top of line scope, or for someone just getting into long range, I have no problem suggesting a swfa ss. I would buy another one if they had a variable with parallax adjustment in the same price range.
If duplicating a scope product is so hard, why wouldn't the manufacturer at least show us an exploded view of their product? Why is it such a secret if I can't take it apart and duplicate it? I'm not looking to know the manufacturing process and specifics, just how durable the scope is built.
If duplicating a scope product is so hard, why wouldn't the manufacturer at least show us an exploded view of their product? Why is it such a secret if I can't take it apart and duplicate it? I'm not looking to know the manufacturing process and specifics, just how durable the scope is built.
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Yes and i agree with you. I wish ever scope maker would show a internal view of there scopes so you can actually look at how well they are going to hold up. As far as your SWFA scope tracking i would really need to see that and test it for myself but sometimes even a blind dog finds a bone. And if yours does work perfectly then i would not bet on the next one working like that. I have tried 2 of those scopes that people i knew bought and neither worked worth a dam... I think you got lucky.
timeless61
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Nov 18, 2008
- Messages
- 274
I have been looking through a lot of scopes lately, and it seems like the NF's are very overbuilt, i was also impressed with how the Trijicon felt as far as how substantial it was.. i know nothing more about it though the NXS along with Mark 4's and vx-3's have large adjustment ranges in the 6-20 5-22 and 8-25 range a lot of the scopes i have been looking at only have 50 moa adj range or only slightly more which eliminates very long shooting. while still having a relatively close range zero
for my eyes though, NF NXS glass was very unimpressive, i started another thread kind of asking if this was normal. found here: http://www.longrangehunting.com/forums/f18/i-got-look-through-bunch-scopes-today-60294/
for me, optical quality is more important than being able to hammer nails in with the scope... my leupolds have tracked very well, and it has only been operator error that has caused problems lol and the NF models I would be looking at would not have zero stop anyway
for my eyes though, NF NXS glass was very unimpressive, i started another thread kind of asking if this was normal. found here: http://www.longrangehunting.com/forums/f18/i-got-look-through-bunch-scopes-today-60294/
for me, optical quality is more important than being able to hammer nails in with the scope... my leupolds have tracked very well, and it has only been operator error that has caused problems lol and the NF models I would be looking at would not have zero stop anyway
straightshooter
Well-Known Member
If I new how I would start a poll. Have you ever had a warranty issue with a scope and if yes what brand and model was it? I think this would give us an idea on what scopes are holding up. Also I'm wondering what the big cost are in manufacturing a scope, is it the glass, the labour, the mechanics?
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The glass and the turrets are the bigger cost. I think this would be a great idea. Have you figured out how to start a poll?
bobby
Sharpsman is correct!! You can buy twice or buy a USO the first time. I have a safe full (some are military type and others are lower profile) and all have performed outstanding.
zupatun
Well-Known Member
For you [timeless61]...but you're asking about a "real" tactical scope...when our guys are dragging in or out of a bag over terrain, hopping in and out of vehicles (wheeled, tracked, rotary wing or fixed) it MUST perform, that means not breaking in the field. It means the use it sees on a daily basis is exponentially (hope I spelled it right) greater than that of the average hunter or target shooter. It's actually not "overdone" at all, but built to the standard set by the people using it in the harshest situations period...USO, NF, S&B all have to perform mechanically flawlessly...
Good glass is a given, great glass is nice, but the scope must hold zero and work from -40F to 140F in the field, not the lab...
You may or may not already be framiliar with what the scopes have to endure, but my opinion (former desk flying USAF) is that if you want a "real" tactical scope, it will be built like NF, or USO or S&B, Leupold MkIV and others...and you gotta pay for that. There are scopes with better glass, **** good internals, but don't qualify for the "real tactical scope" monniker.
Straightshooter--you're wondering where to get info on the scope build so you can decide? Don't think that's the way to go about it. Not everyone has cutaways with spec's on the internals...however, you CAN find who is selling to the US Government...you can google S&B, or Nightforce, or Leupold and you'll come up with some websites that tell you how much they do direct...won't necessarily give you ALL the Gov't sales, but you will get an idea of who is actually SELLING scopes used operationally by the services.
Choices are to buy what the military buys or you can buy a something one level down. If you want the "real" ones spend the money, if you can live with the next level down, you get what you pay for. The military doesn't "really" use the next level down because that's not what they buy...if this thread was titled "Almost tactical scope" people would be telling you about those other scopes, not S&B, USO, NF and Leupy et al...
Matt
Good glass is a given, great glass is nice, but the scope must hold zero and work from -40F to 140F in the field, not the lab...
You may or may not already be framiliar with what the scopes have to endure, but my opinion (former desk flying USAF) is that if you want a "real" tactical scope, it will be built like NF, or USO or S&B, Leupold MkIV and others...and you gotta pay for that. There are scopes with better glass, **** good internals, but don't qualify for the "real tactical scope" monniker.
Straightshooter--you're wondering where to get info on the scope build so you can decide? Don't think that's the way to go about it. Not everyone has cutaways with spec's on the internals...however, you CAN find who is selling to the US Government...you can google S&B, or Nightforce, or Leupold and you'll come up with some websites that tell you how much they do direct...won't necessarily give you ALL the Gov't sales, but you will get an idea of who is actually SELLING scopes used operationally by the services.
Choices are to buy what the military buys or you can buy a something one level down. If you want the "real" ones spend the money, if you can live with the next level down, you get what you pay for. The military doesn't "really" use the next level down because that's not what they buy...if this thread was titled "Almost tactical scope" people would be telling you about those other scopes, not S&B, USO, NF and Leupy et al...
Matt
timeless61
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Nov 18, 2008
- Messages
- 274
zupatun; Matt[/QUOTE said:
