What is your baseline zero a dial adjustable scope?

[yobuck]

If your eyes and brain allowed you to watch a shooter fire a rifle sighted in for 300 yards , you could watch a bullet go up in relation to the ground before it dropped toward the target.

Well of coarse it will.
But where is the muzzle pointed in order to accomplish that?
What happens to the reticle in the scope when you (add) elevation? Does it move up or down?
In order to increase the elevation of the bullet, you need to first elevate the muzzel, and the bullet itself will never rise above it.
Adding elevation to a scope simply forces you to raise the muzzle.
No different than simply holding over a target in order to hit it.
And theres not a thing wrong with doing a little of that either at times.
Its called coulda, shoulda, woulda.

 

[Rich Coyle]

Depends on caliber for me. Most are 100 yard zero for dialing purposes. But…. We were always taught that a zero at a 100 should be 1.5" high so that a 25 or 50 yard shot wouldn't be super low and 200 would be about zeroed. I have a question on here for the members who zero at 300, I know this depends on the caliber and projectile, but how low do they hit at 25 yards? Some of my flatter shooters at 1.5" high at 100 hit 2" low or lower at 25 yards. Depending on game it may matter when after the smaller critters. Just curious…

Is how high is your scope?

 

[yobuck]

I have many turret scopes I use for long range target work such as my Nightforce ATACR and Kahles K25 but for hunting I use a Leupold VX5-HD 3-15x44 with the TLR reticle. It is zeroed at 300 yards then has a dot for 400, 500, 600 yards then a short cross hair at 700 yards and then dots again at 800, 900, and 1,000 yards. I find this to be a superior big game set up. You are probably wondering how to adjust for atmospheric conditions. I simply adjust the power setting to correspond with the 1000 yard dot for the elevation and temperature I plan to hunt at and ignore all the rest. Using a flat enough shooting rifle and it seems to work really well. Mine are 6.6-300 Wby and 30-378 Wby.

Are you using a first or second focal plane scope?

 

[del2les]

Anyone have ELR rifles with steep MOA bases that do not allow for SR/MR zeroing? Say under 300-500yds?

 

[Stokesrjsr]

Are you using a first or second focal plane scope?

The Leupold with the TLR reticle is second focal plane, which I prefer for hunting. So the substentions are correct for only one magnification which is max or near max magnification. That isn't a problem because if I am taking a long range shot or approaching a position from where I will make a long range shot the power needs to be cranked up anyway. All my Target scopes are first focal plane but I don't really like them for hunting big game because, on low power the reticle is very thin, where I need it to be bold so it can be quickly acquired and at long range they are to bold covering too much of the aiming point, exactly the opposite of what I like.

 

[yobuck]

The Leupold with the TLR reticle is second focal plane, which I prefer for hunting. So the substentions are correct for only one magnification which is max or near max magnification. That isn't a problem because if I am taking a long range shot or approaching a position from where I will make a long range shot the power needs to be cranked up anyway. All my Target scopes are first focal plane but I don't really like them for hunting big game because, on low power the reticle is very thin, where I need it to be bold so it can be quickly acquired and at long range they are to bold covering too much of the aiming point, exactly the opposite of what I like.

That was the reason for my question about the focal plane.
As you have said, the reticle will be correct on only one power setting with a second focal plane scope.
I would assume that with your scope, since its a factory installed reticle, that it would be correct on the highest power setting.
However, and assuming your scope also has a target type elevation knob that can be dialed, you should also be able to dial from any of those subtentions as well.
In other words you can treat the 1000 yard mark as though it were the 100 yard mark and dial from it.
Same goes for all the others, rather than holding high for a 750 yard shot, you can hold on the 700 and just add some clicks if you prefer. I personally prefer holding, but not everybody does.
So you can hold the 1000 yard mark and then dial out to 1200 or whatever from there. And since your scope is zeroed for a closer distance, say 100 yards, you will never run out of clicks since your starting at 1000 for your zero.
If you havent tried that i suggest you do rather than playing around with the power setting.
You might also know that if your scope dosent have target knobs you can send it to Leopold and they will install one or both for about $100 each.

 

[HighDesertHunter]

100 yard zero. Mainly for the quick short up close work of a hunting rifle. I have rough dial settings memorized for 300, 400, 500, 600. Anything farther I get out the phone and get a full solution

 

[yobuck]

The Leupold with the TLR reticle is second focal plane, which I prefer for hunting. So the substentions are correct for only one magnification which is max or near max magnification. That isn't a problem because if I am taking a long range shot or approaching a position from where I will make a long range shot the power needs to be cranked up anyway. All my Target scopes are first focal plane but I don't really like them for hunting big game because, on low power the reticle is very thin, where I need it to be bold so it can be quickly acquired and at long range they are to bold covering too much of the aiming point, exactly the opposite of what I like.

Well here we go again.
First off, im very familiar with custom reticles, and have been using Leupold scopes having them for about 50 years.
Premier Reticles at one time were a certified repair facility for Leupold scopes.
And they also specialized in the installation of custom muti dot reticles in Leupold scopes, and only in Leupold scopes.
This was back before Leupold offered target knobs on their scopes, which came about in the early 80s. But even after that you could still get them installed.
In order to have a custom reticle installed, Premier needed specific cartridge information. including the bullet being used, the BC of the bullet, the specific velocity in the ( gun to be used, ) The distance of the reticle above the bore, and at least an average number for temperature and altitude.
Pretty much the same information needed for making an elevation chart.
Since reading and replying to these posts, ive been very curious about some of these things.
So today i called Leupold scopes and talked to a tech.
He was very familiar with the Premier Reticles, and the fact that they are no longer in business.
I asked if Leupold were now offering a custom reticle, and he said no.
I then asked if the TLR reticle which im not familiar with could be used in that manner.
His answer was that they dont offer a TLR reticle.
Next question, do you offer any reticle that might be used for that purpose, again the answer was no.

Now all that said, it could be that TLR is a reticle by some other company?
Also it would probably be possible to use some of the various reticles available today to come up with some type of a program on your own.
But it would require a whole lot of shooting in order to get that information.
And of coarse it would only apply to that gun with that load.

 

[M1A1ABRAMS]

Well here we go again.
First off, im very familiar with custom reticles, and have been using Leupold scopes having them for about 50 years.
Premier Reticles at one time were a certified repair facility for Leupold scopes.
And they also specialized in the installation of custom muti dot reticles in Leupold scopes, and only in Leupold scopes.
This was back before Leupold offered target knobs on their scopes, which came about in the early 80s. But even after that you could still get them installed.
In order to have a custom reticle installed, Premier needed specific cartridge information. including the bullet being used, the BC of the bullet, the specific velocity in the ( gun to be used, ) The distance of the reticle above the bore, and at least an average number for temperature and altitude.
Pretty much the same information needed for making an elevation chart.
Since reading and replying to these posts, ive been very curious about some of these things.
So today i called Leupold scopes and talked to a tech.
He was very familiar with the Premier Reticles, and the fact that they are no longer in business.
I asked if Leupold were now offering a custom reticle, and he said no.
I then asked if the TLR reticle which im not familiar with could be used in that manner.
His answer was that they dont offer a TLR reticle.
Next question, do you offer any reticle that might be used for that purpose, again the answer was no.

Now all that said, it could be that TLR is a reticle by some other company?
Also it would probably be possible to use some of the various reticles available today to come up with some type of a program on your own.
But it would require a whole lot of shooting in order to get that information.
And of coarse it would only apply to that gun with that load.

I went to Shot Show in Harrisburg Pa. I think it was 2018. And there was a guy there selling scopes that he would etch the glass for yardage to specific load for a specific rifle. I can not remember the name of the company though. And I do believe he was using Leupold SFP scopes to do this. If I remember right. I believe I have his business card somewhere. If I was to look long enough I may find it some year. lol
edit,
I believe the max range was 7 or 800 yards.

 

[Stokesrjsr]

The Leupold with the TLR reticle is second focal plane, which I prefer for hunting. So the substentions are correct for only one magnification which is max or near max magnification. That isn't a problem because if I am taking a long range shot or approaching a position from where I will make a long range shot the power needs to be cranked up anyway. All my Target scopes are first focal plane but I don't really like them for hunting big game because, on low power the reticle is very thin, where I need it to be bold so it can be quickly acquired and at long range they are to bold covering too much of the aiming point, exactly the opposite of what I like.

Well here we go again.
First off, im very familiar with custom reticles, and have been using Leupold scopes having them for about 50 years.
Premier Reticles at one time were a certified repair facility for Leupold scopes.
And they also specialized in the installation of custom muti dot reticles in Leupold scopes, and only in Leupold scopes.
This was back before Leupold offered target knobs on their scopes, which came about in the early 80s. But even after that you could still get them installed.
In order to have a custom reticle installed, Premier needed specific cartridge information. including the bullet being used, the BC of the bullet, the specific velocity in the ( gun to be used, ) The distance of the reticle above the bore, and at least an average number for temperature and altitude.
Pretty much the same information needed for making an elevation chart.
Since reading and replying to these posts, ive been very curious about some of these things.
So today i called Leupold scopes and talked to a tech.
He was very familiar with the Premier Reticles, and the fact that they are no longer in business.
I asked if Leupold were now offering a custom reticle, and he said no.
I then asked if the TLR reticle which im not familiar with could be used in that manner.
His answer was that they dont offer a TLR reticle.
Next question, do you offer any reticle that might be used for that purpose, again the answer was no.

Now all that said, it could be that TLR is a reticle by some other company?
Also it would probably be possible to use some of the various reticles available today to come up with some type of a program on your own.
But it would require a whole lot of shooting in order to get that information.
And of coarse it would only apply to that gun with that load.

You didn't talk to someone at Leupold that knows. The TLR is indeed a Leupold factory built scope exclusively for Thompson Long Range in Logan Utah. He has them in stock and mine came in a Leupold factory box labeled with a Leupold label that includes a picture of the reticle. I also talked with Leupold at the shot show and asked them about it, they told me like they told you that they didn't make any custom reticles so I can see where you were misinformed. Only when I told them that I knew for a fact that they did, then the truth came out.
I went to the Thompson Long Range Class and assembled the scope on a brand new Weatherby Mark 5 chambered in 30-378 Weatherby, bore sighted it, shot two shots at 300 yards, one shot at 500 yards, one shot at 700 yards and then a 3 shot group that was under one MOA at 1000 yards. Then cranked toe power down to 12 X and shot one shot at 1200 yards on a 8X10 steel plate and made a solid hit on it. Notice the group is right of center, that is because I held center with no allowance for wind. Also note those three shots are shots number 5, 6, 7, from a brand new gun with no break in. This was using the 1000 yard dot.

Mark has put over 4000 students with this system through his class and has no failures, and even though he offers a money back guarantee he has had no one dissatisfied.

Like I said, previously, I have many high end scopes with turrets and fully understand how to use them but prefer the simplicity of this system.

I'm curious with what you mean by here we go again?

 

[Trm82]

No way. Unless you are shooting on the moon.
300 yd zero is 16"+ of drop @ 500, even at 7000' AMSL & 85°F.

Let me re-phrase for you so your happy then!!

I can hold on hair on a elk size body at 500 is what I was meaning to say .
I don't make it a common occurrence but it can be done.

To me that's still point and shoot , I would not have to touch the dial to make a shot.

 

[kopcicle]

"Here we go again."
He was probably waiting for me.

5" MPBR Remington Core-Lokt Ultra Bonded, 140gr 2925 fps
227 yard zero
130 yard MRT
265 yard MPBR ,2mil
300 yards -5.9" .5mil
350 yards -12" 1mil
400 yards -20.2" 1.4mil
450 Yards -30.6" 2.1mil
500 yards -43.5" 2.8mil

From memory because the dope is on the rifle in the safe. I should be within a tenth in any case because this is an old friend and I really don't have to think about it much.

Now for the bad news. If you want it in MOA, go fish.
Who cares, a mil is a mil, there is no reason to translate it to its linear distance equivalent you don't use it.
Now a word from another that said better than I could.

"If you have a mixed system, you're doing it wrong and most companies understand this so they basically no longer sell a mixed systems. The shortcut in this case is 1MOA per .25 mil. Round 3.6 to 4.

Its an an angle, all angles have a straight line distance but in shooting we have learned we don't Need to cloud the mind with that information. A mil at 100 is a mil at 300 is a mil at 833.3 yards. The answer is dial or adjust 1 mil the angle tells us this as the angle is what matters not the linear distance.

WYSIWYG....

If you see it that is the answer. Stop translating it you don't need it. Think pennies, nickels and a dime. A mil is 10, you have 10 pennies, or 2 nickels, it still equals a dime. Focusing on inches in a mil discussion is a waste of time and ineffective."
~LowLight snipershide.com

The point is an effective rifle needs an effective zero, not an arbitrary one. Why not a useful zero? A zero that will reach 265 yards without being 2.5" above or below line of sight. Put another way a dead hold will hit a 5" gong to 265 yards and anywhere in between. Then as I did tape or attach to the rifle the hold over for anything beyond 265 yards.

Just because it makes sense to me doesn't mean it has to make sense to you. Just like sighting in at 100, 200, 300 yards makes no sense to me at all.

 

[yobuck]

You didn't talk to someone at Leupold that knows. The TLR is indeed a Leupold factory built scope exclusively for Thompson Long Range in Logan Utah. He has them in stock and mine came in a Leupold factory box labeled with a Leupold label that includes a picture of the reticle. I also talked with Leupold at the shot show and asked them about it, they told me like they told you that they didn't make any custom reticles so I can see where you were misinformed. Only when I told them that I knew for a fact that they did, then the truth came out.
I went to the Thompson Long Range Class and assembled the scope on a brand new Weatherby Mark 5 chambered in 30-378 Weatherby, bore sighted it, shot two shots at 300 yards, one shot at 500 yards, one shot at 700 yards and then a 3 shot group that was under one MOA at 1000 yards. Then cranked toe power down to 12 X and shot one shot at 1200 yards on a 8X10 steel plate and made a solid hit on it. Notice the group is right of center, that is because I held center with no allowance for wind. Also note those three shots are shots number 5, 6, 7, from a brand new gun with no break in. This was using the 1000 yard dot.

Mark has put over 4000 students with this system through his class and has no failures, and even though he offers a money back guarantee he has had no one dissatisfied.

Like I said, previously, I have many high end scopes with turrets and fully understand how to use them but prefer the simplicity of this system.

I'm curious with what you mean by here we go again?

Well all that could have been mentioned in your first post, couldnt it?
None the less, there are still things not said.
Like the ammo for example.
The reticle will only work (properly) with the specific ammo you used.
Which was no doubt supplied/sold by the school, along with the scope, and maybe the gun ?
Otherwise it wouldnt have worked properly.
As for turning the power down in order to hit the 1200 target, somebody did alot of experimenting in order to find that out didnt they?
Is that something average Joe hunter might do when he is out Elk hunting?
So now lets go to say 1450, what power do you use for that?
Did they tell you that you could also use the dial?
Does the scope even have a dial?
Maybe the school only sells the scopes, in order to sell people on the school ? lol
Like the carrot on the string.
You really really want to do this dont you ?
Well come join us, and you too can show all your friends how its done.
But they gotta come here first if they want the scope. lol

Back in those deep dark hollows of NC PA, nobody went to school. Any kind of school. lol

As for the 30x378, i used one for long range hunting for about 25 years.
Built by a man who lived in one of those hollows.
He wouldnt build me the gun untill i had the right powder to use in it. Which at the time wasent easy to come by.
A heavy bench type gun, custom action, 36" 1"250 barrel,
3500 FPS with a 200 gr SMK, using 113 gr H570.
The H isnt a typo.
The man in the hollow told me what to load, and he gave me a click chart.
I used a B & L Balvar 6x24 power scope with a Kuharsky micrometer rear mount on it.
Today the gun has a new barrel, chambered in a better cartridge.
And it wears a new Nightforce scope, which i frankly dont consider as an improvement for what i use it for.
The old Leupold scopes with the Premier reticles are used on lighter 7x300 Wetherbys. Guess who built them. lol
The reticles were set up for the 162 gr Hornady BTHP bullet at 3350 FPS.
I used one of them to kill my first and only PA black bear with a first round hit on a 700 + yard shot.
The only luck part was seeing the bear. lol

 

[Stokesrjsr]

Yes, in the class there is a section on load development and you load the ammo you will shoot in the class before going to the range. There are several options depending on the bullet you want to use, and a list of different powders and charge weights that will produce close to the velocity needed to match the reticle and then you adjust to that velocity. I shot several loads at 1000 yards that all worked. The nominal is a 180 grain Nosler Accubond at 3,370 fps. If you are not a hand loader you can buy the ammunition from them.
The simple part is that it is a turn key system, with scope rifle and ammo tuned together.
However it is a simple matter to adjust for other calibers which I have done for my 6.5-300 Wby with everything from 135 grain Berger Classic Hunters to 156 grain Extreme Outer Limits and from 3450 down to 3150 FPS. You simply sight the load in for 300 yards and then adjust the magnification for the 1000 yard dot to align with the point of impact. You don't actually have to shoot at 1000 yards, you can use a ballistic calculator to build a drop table like you would for your turret scope and mark a yard stick, to correspond to the 1000 yard drop in MOA and then adjust the power on the scope to match and then mark it.
I've actually done this and it works really well.

There is no need to shoot 1400 yards or even 1200 yards hunting because it is beyond the ethical distance to insure proper bullet function for a humane kill. The 1200 yards was simply to demonstrate how the system works.
In the class Mark teaches that we want above 1800 fps impact velocity to be ethical, and I agree with him.

I'm the design engineer for Berger Bullets and often see the results when velocity falls below this floor. It isn't good, for our bullets or our competitors. I test them all. Here is an example of a 208 grain EOL at 1150 fps impact velocity with an elk.