Experimenting with the .30-30?

[Critter Picker]

I used to reload for my dads 30-30 Contender when he was still able to hunt. If I recall, it shot the 125 and 150gr NBTs very well at surprisingly high velocities considering it was a 14" barrel. He killed a few deer with it over the years and bullet performance was always good with one exception. He shot a Whitetail and the bullet went through two strands of barbed wire fence before striking the deer. That one took a bit of tracking before we finally found it.

Back in the 80's, we took a 2 foot by 4 foot sheet os 3/4 inch plywood. Put it in a CNC mill and plunged 1/4 inch staggered holes . Then we cut wood dowels 12 inches long and put them into the holes. That way we could see what happened when a bullet strikes an object. Even the 45-70 405 grain were affected. There is no such thing as a brush buster.

As a friend described it. When a bullet hits anything it acts like a top. There's no way to predict where it will go.

 

[Dean2]

Back in the 80's, we took a 2 foot by 4 foot sheet os 3/4 inch plywood. Put it in a CNC mill and plunged 1/4 inch staggered holes . Then we cut wood dowels 12 inches long and put them into the holes. That way we could see what happened when a bullet strikes an object. Even the 45-70 405 grain were affected. There is no such thing as a brush buster.

As a friend described it. When a bullet hits anything it acts like a top. There's no way to predict where it will go.

We did deflection experiments too, but we used a heavy screen of still growing, natural willow, with a Deer Silhouette target right behind it. We shot from typical bush hunting distances of 25 and 75 yards. Not a very scientific method but we repeated it a few times. Generally the shot still hit the vitals in the deer. Some shots were deflected but not enough to miss or just wound. Some of the lighter, faster bullets did separate and then you got more than one entry wound. Because it was a paper target there is no real way to know the weight of the projectiles after the split, so penetration may have been an issue.

The 350 and 400 grain 45-70 rounds at 1600 fps also deflected, but not as much as lighter and faster rounds, and we never had one split up, even the Hornady 350 grain RN. In all calibres, cast bullets were less prone to deflection, and none broke up. We used cast in 30, 284, 38-55 and 45-70.

I think the live willow would be easier to move through and would deflect less, than hard, dry 1/4" wood dowels so that may explain some of our difference3s in results.

 

[Critter Picker]

We did deflection experiments too, but we used a heavy screen of still growing, natural willow, with a Deer Silhouette target right behind it. We shot from typical bush hunting distances of 25 and 75 yards. Not a very scientific method but we repeated it a few times. Generally the shot still hit the vitals in the deer. Some shots were deflected but not enough to miss or just wound. Some of the lighter, faster bullets did separate and then you got more than one entry wound. Because it was a paper target there is no real way to know the weight of the projectiles after the split, so penetration may have been an issue.

The 350 and 400 grain 45-70 rounds at 1600 fps also deflected, but not as much as lighter and faster rounds, and we never had one split up, even the Hornady 350 grain RN. In all calibres, cast bullets were less prone to deflection, and none broke up. We used cast in 30, 284, 38-55 and 45-70.

I think the live willow would be easier to move through and would deflect less, than hard, dry 1/4" wood dowels so that may explain some of our difference3s in results.

The conclusion we came to was the 405 and 500 grain 45-70 bullets lost some stability,but the faster a bullet went, the more unstable it was. And it was similar to a top hitting a chair leg. The faster it spins the more it deflected. If you crank up a top and it hits the chair leg it will bounce more than a top that is winding down.

But it seemed that a (for example) a 150 grain 30 cal. Bullet in a 12 twist would deflect more than the same bullet at same velocity in a 10 twist would. If that makes sense. Which stands to reason because the 12 twist is closer to the edge of stability.

 

[Frank in the Laurels]

..that ole' 788 is an extremely accurate action..I had two, one in 22/250 & 6mm, they shot as well or better that any other bolt action factory bolt, pump or level ever made....I would imagine the 30/30 with a good Spitzer bullet would shoot awesome and certainly more than capable of harvesting any big game animal if you do yours..

 

[Critter Picker]

The 788 had a faster lock time than the 700. I had one in 222. Put in a Canjar trigger. Great prairie dog gun.

 

[KNOTFERSAIL]

You're talking a bolt gun 30-30 but thought I'd share a couple loads that flat out shoot in multiple 336's. May be worth a try in your rifle.

Hornady 135ftx @ c.o.a.l 2.585 and bto @ 2.050 w/ light crimp and AA 2520 or Leverevolution.

Leverevolution gets 100fps more but both are identical groups (small)

 

[ducky]

Hornady 135ftx @ c.o.a.l 2.585 and bto @ 2.050 w/ light crimp and AA 2520 or Leverevolution.

Thanks, I bought some Lever today, it was about the only thing I could find at my LGS. I've "misplaced" my .30 cal pilot, and couldn't trim any cases back to make a dummy round. I meaused my mag and I think I'll be able to run 2.60" COL without issues.

If my math is correct I should have room to play with seating depth. The BTO on the 125gr AB .458" and a .30-30 case at minimum trim length is 2.029" with a neck .476" long. I figure I'll trim .168" off leaving me with a .308" neck and a minimum trim length on the case of 1.861". That should put me around 2.495" COL as my sample of one bullet measures 1.090, so I should have .105" to play with seating depth. I can always trim a little more, but something about using the diameter of the bullet for minimum neck length is stuck in my brain.

 

[cdherman]

Hmmm. your idea of trimming the case back troubles me. You are going to obligate yourself to using those trimmed cases because you will get a carbon ring beyond them. And if you try and chamber a standard 30-30 you will put additional crimp/distortion on the case neck. Bad ju-ju

I think an accubond is a bad choice in a spitzer for a 30-30 bolt. Admittedly, I have ZERO real world experience here. But a different, flat base spitzer (no boat tail) will put more weight in the cartridge. Less out front. You want an old school spitzer. Try speer or Sierra or Hornady. What matters is the distance from Ogive to tip. You want it short obviously, given your mag length. Those drawings are out there -- takes some sleuthing sometimes, but they are out there.

 

[Dean2]

Have to agree. An old fashioned Hornady Interlock SP Flat base will be the perfect bullet for the 30-30 speeds on game. They still make a 110 CX, 125 sst 130 and 150 interlock. Perfect range for this.

 

[wvbearhunter]

I used N-550 (mag primer) for a while with the 150 grain Nosler BT in my 30-30 and got REALLY good performance. This was in a 24" Sharps, managed to get velocity to 2475 on average. The downside was I started seeing barrel erosion after about 200 rounds so ended up going to ramshot tac. Its about 200fps slower but the accuracy is still great. The two deer I shot with this load dropped in there tracks and looked like I hit them with a 308 Win. Both were just over 150 yards.

 

[wvbearhunter]

Have to agree. An old fashioned Hornady Interlock SP Flat base will be the perfect bullet for the 30-30 speeds on game. They still make a 110 CX, 125 sst 130 and 150 interlock. Perfect range for this.

The Barnes 150 grain TSX-FN is an absolute grenade at 30-30 velocities

 

[ducky]

Hmmm. your idea of trimming the case back troubles me. You are going to obligate yourself to using those trimmed cases because you will get a carbon ring beyond them. And if you try and chamber a standard 30-30 you will put additional crimp/distortion on the case neck. Bad ju-ju

I've thought about that as well. I've just decided it's something I'll have to be cognizant of, and make sure I remove the ring often. I don't see it as any different that what a person shooting a 7 PRC has to deal with.

 

[ducky]

I had some stuff delivered yesterday, and had time to install this afternoon. I had the trigger sent preset at 1.5 lbs from Timney, it sure is a lot nicer than the old factory trigger.