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ELR CENTRAL WORLD RECORD EVENT
- Thread starter ELR Researcher
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DocUSMCRetired
Well-Known Member
ELR Central has put up the money, time, and effort to make this happen. The community will be the ones who get to see the results and efforts of the shooters. The officials have volunteered time and travel to be there as a 3rd party. They have numerous events under their belt. Many in the industry have provided the materials to make this happen at their own expense.
This is a group effort through the community and many outlets.
sable tireur
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Oct 8, 2010
- Messages
- 3,970
Doc,
With all due respect, I think the idea which several of us are trying to get across is that this is a 'world record' sanctioned under the ELR Central rules only. This means that any other organization such as the NRA or the X,Y,Z can come along and write their own rules governing a new record under a new set of rules. In essence, while a number of people have contributed to this set of rules by committee, there is nothing to prevent another organization from taking a different tact with a different set of rules which would govern a different 'world record'. I have been using the IBS and the NBRSA as examples of the process. One organization and it's members does not override the other organization and it's members. Their rules are separate as are their records.
Regards.
With all due respect, I think the idea which several of us are trying to get across is that this is a 'world record' sanctioned under the ELR Central rules only. This means that any other organization such as the NRA or the X,Y,Z can come along and write their own rules governing a new record under a new set of rules. In essence, while a number of people have contributed to this set of rules by committee, there is nothing to prevent another organization from taking a different tact with a different set of rules which would govern a different 'world record'. I have been using the IBS and the NBRSA as examples of the process. One organization and it's members does not override the other organization and it's members. Their rules are separate as are their records.
Regards.
DocUSMCRetired
Well-Known Member
That is true. Those organizations are of course free to do whatever they want. They are also free to host events under these rules. Which multiple organizations/people have contacted us about doing even in different countries.
All of this is of course a learning process, early in development. The most important part is what we all learn from this, and how we improve the sport together.
When part of this endeavor started at SHOT Show 2016 there was a meeting held. Where a number of companies & shooters, including ELR Central, agreed to keep things public. Agreed to do things in a way that benefited shooters and the sport. This is one of those steps. The end goal is to benefit and help all endeavors around the world, and ELR Central has been working with others around the world to do so. That includes organizations, leagues, and match directors where possible. I wouldn't limit what you see here in thinking that this is only an ELR Central thing. This is an open community thing, that has had input from all over the world and shooting community. ELR Central is working with other organizations and shooters all the time.
D
Deleted member 46119
Guest
Doc,
I get to have my opinion. It doesn't matter if the rules were created by God. My opinion is my opinion. Rebutting someones opinion is just an argument.
No matter what my opinion is, you will get to have your events. Declare a standardized world champion. This is a good thing.
I understand this is unsolicited advice to you, however, my advice is "let it go". I am a fly spec in this world and my opinion is worth less than a fly spec.
Hey Doc,
Who exactly is in ELR Central? Is there a board yet?
About
ELR Central is an informational resource, hosted by Applied Ballistics
Pretty vague description from the website
Who exactly is in ELR Central? Is there a board yet?
About
ELR Central is an informational resource, hosted by Applied Ballistics
Pretty vague description from the website
D
Deleted member 46119
Guest
Hey @DocUSMCRetired
By hitting back at people, now there are some want to see your credentials.
My recommendation is not to get into a sniper mood and to avoid reciting "facts".
My interpretation is that @Hoffer and others want is reassurance that you (Applied Ballistics) are not trying to "rule the world" as has been done by so many before to disastrous result. A "standard" can be confining if done in this way.
A standardization would be great. A commercial entity controlling that standard for marketing/financial gain? Not so much.
Have a happy, productive and profitable 2018.
By hitting back at people, now there are some want to see your credentials.
My recommendation is not to get into a sniper mood and to avoid reciting "facts".
My interpretation is that @Hoffer and others want is reassurance that you (Applied Ballistics) are not trying to "rule the world" as has been done by so many before to disastrous result. A "standard" can be confining if done in this way.
A standardization would be great. A commercial entity controlling that standard for marketing/financial gain? Not so much.
Have a happy, productive and profitable 2018.
JeffVN
Well-Known Member
i recall just seeing another record event in Texas in April or something. will be getting more interesting as time goes forward and more events take place.
Jeffvn
Jeffvn
So ELR C went from an informational resource to a rules making entity to a sanctioning body in 1 year.
Now I know ELR C is not the group of 53 people helping to make rules.
So I ask respectfully
Who owns ELR C?
Who runs ELR C?
Who is on the ELR C team/board?
How will ELR C be setup in the future? ... board members, ect
If you want to take over the sport we deserve to know who's in charge.
Now I know ELR C is not the group of 53 people helping to make rules.
So I ask respectfully
Who owns ELR C?
Who runs ELR C?
Who is on the ELR C team/board?
How will ELR C be setup in the future? ... board members, ect
If you want to take over the sport we deserve to know who's in charge.
Hello,
Well we should all be so grateful for item #2 right? After all they are "offering" us mere mortals the opportunity to look at their FB page...LOLOL
ELR Central is an informational resource, hosted by Applied Ballistics.
Mission statement:
"Our mission is to advance the state of the art in Extreme Long Range rifle shooting by: sharing knowledge, promoting awareness, and encouraging best practices within the ELR community."
The following is a list of activities and resources which are provided by ELR Central to help achieve our mission:
Well we should all be so grateful for item #2 right? After all they are "offering" us mere mortals the opportunity to look at their FB page...LOLOL
ELR Central is an informational resource, hosted by Applied Ballistics.
Mission statement:
"Our mission is to advance the state of the art in Extreme Long Range rifle shooting by: sharing knowledge, promoting awareness, and encouraging best practices within the ELR community."
The following is a list of activities and resources which are provided by ELR Central to help achieve our mission:
- This website. The ELR Central website contains current information on all the ELR events going on including matches and record setting events. We maintain an updated map of all known ELR shooting facilities. Articles written by established ELR shooters can be found which share a great deal of the information that's known about deliberately and successfully shooting targets beyond 1500 yards.
- The ELR Central Facebook page. Social media is a pervasive part of our modern culture. Since ELR Central's primary mission revolves around sharing information and mainstreaming the discipline of ELR shooting, we're offering this resource for the community to use as a learning tool.
- Discussion forum. The ELR Forum on LongRangeOnly.com will be frequented by ELR Central staff as an additional avenue for communications.
- Certified Targets. In an effort to bring some standardization to matches and record setting events, ELR Central will be providing steel targets of certified dimensions. These targets will be provided to event organizers free of charge, compliments of ELRC and Applied Ballistics as a contribution to the sport.
JeffVN
Well-Known Member
I think the simple answer is that ELR Central is A.B. They had the site already up and running, and were willing to use it for this purpose. The group that crafted the rules is NOT A.B., and not controlled by A.B. The group did its best to NOT let the rules get hijacked by a single entity or the prospective views of such entity. Did we accomplish what we wanted, maybe. Individual events are still going to happen, and the rules that were proposed are flexible enough to allow for individual site-related issues.
ELR is a VERY small piece of long range shooting community (a large percentage is former or current military). When you look at the NRA statistics (yeah I know, but they are the best ones out there that I know of), only a very tiny percentage of all shooters in the U.S. ever shoot out to 1,000 yards in their entire shooting experience (not on a military base or deployment). The number that can or have shot to 1,800 yards is far smaller than the 1,000 yard shooters. It takes decent $ to play in the 1,800 yard game, and more serious still to get beyond 2,500-3,000 yards. The advent of new bullets and new powders is allowing the ELR accuracy game to evolve and extend to distances not previously thought reachable with accuracy. These events and matches are, to me, the natural byproduct of the monthly/weekly shooting bets that guys tend to have when they go to the range.. who is better - loser buys lunch/beer.
This early stage in the evolution of what looks like it may become a recognized sport allows for everyone who wants to host an event and shoot for a record to do so. I hazard to say if you sling 37 rounds down range to get a single hit on a 4 foot by 6 foot target, most folks who think in terms of accuracy will not consider that record to be one worth recognizing. But if you shoot 3 straight, including a cold bore (meaning one where you haven't shot within roughly 25-30 minutes before you take the record attempt shots) and have some video and a couple witnesses folks might just agree with you... you got a record.
The good news is you guys can all create and host your own event. If you don't like the rules for this event or the ones put out by the group. No worries. Go have your own event with your own rules. I'm looking to do just that with my little group. (ours will be basically the same rules - except an actual cold bore - not shots within prior couple hours). Sooner or later this is either going to hash itself out or go away. Either way myself and my buddies will be out in the desert shooting beyond 1,900 yards for beer, loser buys.
Jeffvn
ELR is a VERY small piece of long range shooting community (a large percentage is former or current military). When you look at the NRA statistics (yeah I know, but they are the best ones out there that I know of), only a very tiny percentage of all shooters in the U.S. ever shoot out to 1,000 yards in their entire shooting experience (not on a military base or deployment). The number that can or have shot to 1,800 yards is far smaller than the 1,000 yard shooters. It takes decent $ to play in the 1,800 yard game, and more serious still to get beyond 2,500-3,000 yards. The advent of new bullets and new powders is allowing the ELR accuracy game to evolve and extend to distances not previously thought reachable with accuracy. These events and matches are, to me, the natural byproduct of the monthly/weekly shooting bets that guys tend to have when they go to the range.. who is better - loser buys lunch/beer.
This early stage in the evolution of what looks like it may become a recognized sport allows for everyone who wants to host an event and shoot for a record to do so. I hazard to say if you sling 37 rounds down range to get a single hit on a 4 foot by 6 foot target, most folks who think in terms of accuracy will not consider that record to be one worth recognizing. But if you shoot 3 straight, including a cold bore (meaning one where you haven't shot within roughly 25-30 minutes before you take the record attempt shots) and have some video and a couple witnesses folks might just agree with you... you got a record.
The good news is you guys can all create and host your own event. If you don't like the rules for this event or the ones put out by the group. No worries. Go have your own event with your own rules. I'm looking to do just that with my little group. (ours will be basically the same rules - except an actual cold bore - not shots within prior couple hours). Sooner or later this is either going to hash itself out or go away. Either way myself and my buddies will be out in the desert shooting beyond 1,900 yards for beer, loser buys.
Jeffvn
Thanks Jeff, i didn't think Doc would actually answer a direct question.
Problem is after the next shot show meetings AB will be in control of ELR. They will no longer need the team of 53 and can do what they will unless supervised. At the least ELR C needs to be a separate entity with a board of various interests. Not a 5 member board with 3 AB guys.
Example
Lets say AB gets the record at the upcoming event which in all likelihood they will.
AB now holds the "world record" under a body run by themselves. That does not look good anyway you look at it. They will then defend this world record and may or may not let someone else in the world get it due to "technicalities". They have their own interests at stake. That gets in the way even with best intentions.
This is the definition of conflict of interest.
If ELR C is going to continue to be just AB I will consider all future results void.
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JeffVN
Well-Known Member
Believe what you want about who is in charge of what. I can disagree, but its still you disagreeing with me. You can consider the results void if you like. Like I said A.B. isn't running the show, but the site was theirs and they offered it up to. Frankly no one else was volunteering to set up a site or keep it maintained.
You want to have an effect on how things go or evolve, then show up and shoot. Do good enough that you can't be ignored. Everyone has the same distances and the same firing line. If it looks hinky, I'm certainly not the only one who is going to speak up.
If this effort results in a few more events happening close enough to Vegas for me to play, I probably will. If the events are messed up - or the rules so convoluted I can't understand what the heck they are doing - I wont show up. That good news is... I get to make the choice.
Other folks will have events, and their rules may vary, but if they shoot with witnesses and video the results are tough to controvert - unless someone wants to call the shooter and witnesses liars to their face. That could get spicy.
Jeffvn
You want to have an effect on how things go or evolve, then show up and shoot. Do good enough that you can't be ignored. Everyone has the same distances and the same firing line. If it looks hinky, I'm certainly not the only one who is going to speak up.
If this effort results in a few more events happening close enough to Vegas for me to play, I probably will. If the events are messed up - or the rules so convoluted I can't understand what the heck they are doing - I wont show up. That good news is... I get to make the choice.
Other folks will have events, and their rules may vary, but if they shoot with witnesses and video the results are tough to controvert - unless someone wants to call the shooter and witnesses liars to their face. That could get spicy.
Jeffvn
You just told me ELR C is AB
