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Elk Caliber?
- Thread starter rryun
- Start date
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Red hunter
Well-Known Member
I have 2 308's a Savage and a Sako that I will trade even for the one that will push a 200 grain bullet of any brand at 2850 and shoot a reasonable group size.
ToKeepAndBear
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- May 27, 2011
- Messages
- 74
Redhunter - See corrected post further down on page 2 for accurate numbers. I mistakenly included the 200gr weight with the 165 BC and velocity in the calculation, a red headed step child of a ballistic calculation. Sorry for the confusion. Kind of like shooting at 800 yards and then shooting at 100 and forgetting to go back to zero!
Winmag - I know nothing about the ballistics of a 300wsm. I do know that my rifle shoots the 200gr SGK with a BC of 0.55 in the mid 2500s well (see attached photo). As far as the numbers, this was chronographed with an Oehler 35p, one of the more accurate chronographs produced, that gives a proof velocity via a 3rd screen. I am very confident in the numbers this chronograph records. You will see that the group I included was one of the more accurate in that node (shot prone from a bipod with a SWFA SS 3-9 scope at 8 power at 100 yards with a thick mil-quad reticle) and had a mean of 2535 measured a lasered 23 yards from the muzzle which works out to 2565 at the muzzle, ES of 27, SD of 10. (That is my only gripe with the Oehler, it comes with target stands that do not get low for prone shooting and require placement of the chrono in a depression 23-25 yards from the muzzle at my 100 yard spot. If you shoot from a bench the stands are perfect.)
Not too bad for hunting bullets that run $33 for a 100 with a good BC and ballistics. (However, my 260 TRG averages groups about half that size with a Hensoldt 4-16 scope and SMKs!)
No pressure signs until higher temps and 48.5 charge weight (Start low and work up in your gun!). The other accuracy node was at 46.5 gr and measured in 2470s with improved single digit ES numbers. I may end up running that load if it does better at long range as I think that velocity is probably adequate. The furthest I have fired the loads is 670 yards at the moment. They seem to ring the steel pretty good at that range and were very accurate! Will test again out to 870 yards this weekend.
Rifle in question:
A more standard length 24-27 inch barrel would likely have no problems shooting this load at 2600 with RL-17 or MR-2000 (people are shooting 208 Amaxs faster out of a 308 Win!). I did run into a slightly stick bolt lift at 48.5 at higher temps. The brass was fireformed Winchester brass that had been neck sized with a Lee Collet die. These sort of numbers are not unique to myself with RL-17 or MR-2000. I prefer MR-2000 as it is supposed to be more temp stable and meters REALLY well. (I have loaded up a couple hundred rounds with that powder and only had 1-2 overthrows with a chargemaster!)
See attached links for velocity numbers higher than mine with 208gr Amax's and other high weight 308 loads! These newer powders are achieving 100-150 fps velocity increases in many 308 loads. Don't take my word for it, buy some of your own powder and work it up in your 308. You may be pleasantly surprised with the results!
https://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1366044&page=1
Alliants new Power Pro 2000mr - Sniper's Hide Forums
Winmag - I know nothing about the ballistics of a 300wsm. I do know that my rifle shoots the 200gr SGK with a BC of 0.55 in the mid 2500s well (see attached photo). As far as the numbers, this was chronographed with an Oehler 35p, one of the more accurate chronographs produced, that gives a proof velocity via a 3rd screen. I am very confident in the numbers this chronograph records. You will see that the group I included was one of the more accurate in that node (shot prone from a bipod with a SWFA SS 3-9 scope at 8 power at 100 yards with a thick mil-quad reticle) and had a mean of 2535 measured a lasered 23 yards from the muzzle which works out to 2565 at the muzzle, ES of 27, SD of 10. (That is my only gripe with the Oehler, it comes with target stands that do not get low for prone shooting and require placement of the chrono in a depression 23-25 yards from the muzzle at my 100 yard spot. If you shoot from a bench the stands are perfect.)
Not too bad for hunting bullets that run $33 for a 100 with a good BC and ballistics. (However, my 260 TRG averages groups about half that size with a Hensoldt 4-16 scope and SMKs!)
No pressure signs until higher temps and 48.5 charge weight (Start low and work up in your gun!). The other accuracy node was at 46.5 gr and measured in 2470s with improved single digit ES numbers. I may end up running that load if it does better at long range as I think that velocity is probably adequate. The furthest I have fired the loads is 670 yards at the moment. They seem to ring the steel pretty good at that range and were very accurate! Will test again out to 870 yards this weekend.
Rifle in question:
A more standard length 24-27 inch barrel would likely have no problems shooting this load at 2600 with RL-17 or MR-2000 (people are shooting 208 Amaxs faster out of a 308 Win!). I did run into a slightly stick bolt lift at 48.5 at higher temps. The brass was fireformed Winchester brass that had been neck sized with a Lee Collet die. These sort of numbers are not unique to myself with RL-17 or MR-2000. I prefer MR-2000 as it is supposed to be more temp stable and meters REALLY well. (I have loaded up a couple hundred rounds with that powder and only had 1-2 overthrows with a chargemaster!)
See attached links for velocity numbers higher than mine with 208gr Amax's and other high weight 308 loads! These newer powders are achieving 100-150 fps velocity increases in many 308 loads. Don't take my word for it, buy some of your own powder and work it up in your 308. You may be pleasantly surprised with the results!
https://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1366044&page=1
Alliants new Power Pro 2000mr - Sniper's Hide Forums
winmag
Well-Known Member
Well, ToKeepandBear,
I reviewed Alliants website, & did a couple searches. While I'm still quite skeptical about reaching anywhere near 2600 (as its almost 150-200 fps faster than thier max listed speed with a 22" pipe) I can certainly see how it may be feasible at high elevation and very short brass life.
I stand very skeptically corrected. Your numbers may be a lot more realistic than I gave them credit for.
Thank you for the link.
I reviewed Alliants website, & did a couple searches. While I'm still quite skeptical about reaching anywhere near 2600 (as its almost 150-200 fps faster than thier max listed speed with a 22" pipe) I can certainly see how it may be feasible at high elevation and very short brass life.
I stand very skeptically corrected. Your numbers may be a lot more realistic than I gave them credit for.
Thank you for the link.
ToKeepAndBear
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- May 27, 2011
- Messages
- 74
Winmag,
No worries, I appreciate your healthy dose of skepticism. I also was rather surprised at the velocities people were getting with the new powders. It does appear that some rifle/bullet/chamber/barrel combos have better results than others, just have to try it in your gun. I had better velocities, accuracy, and ease of dispensing (Chargemaster) with MR-2000 compared to RL-17. Given the results, I am kind of surprised at the lack of information on the web. Maybe people are happy with Varget/RL-15 and just slow to try something new.
As a reference, my altitude is 2000 feet and I have shot the MR-2000/200SGK in temps from 50-70 degrees. Again, start low and work-up in your gun, especially if shooting in Death Valley on a 120 degree day!
ToKeepAndBear
No worries, I appreciate your healthy dose of skepticism. I also was rather surprised at the velocities people were getting with the new powders. It does appear that some rifle/bullet/chamber/barrel combos have better results than others, just have to try it in your gun. I had better velocities, accuracy, and ease of dispensing (Chargemaster) with MR-2000 compared to RL-17. Given the results, I am kind of surprised at the lack of information on the web. Maybe people are happy with Varget/RL-15 and just slow to try something new.
As a reference, my altitude is 2000 feet and I have shot the MR-2000/200SGK in temps from 50-70 degrees. Again, start low and work-up in your gun, especially if shooting in Death Valley on a 120 degree day!
ToKeepAndBear
Thanks to everyone. ok so i will look into getting a 300 win mag. any suggestions on barrel length or conture?? looking into savages there only downfall is the bolt lift but i have 2 others and have gottin used to them. Also looking into the other half of my set up and that is a good scope...something to 20X?
winmag
Well-Known Member
Wise choice.
I'd go minimum of 26" barrel. I personally chose a fluted Hart barrel, with a #4 taper for mine.
If your not into Savages that much, there are more options.
Instead of new, I've found its cheaper or a wash to buy a quality used rifle, like a Win 70, or REM 700 etc., & have it trued, & rebarreled. Seriously.
That leaves you the option to add a trigger, stock, whatever as you can afford it, or have your smith do it all at once while he's re barreling, & truing your action.
At last you won't run the risk of buying a factory lemon that way, & you have an excellent platform to go any direction you choose.
As far as glass goes, I find my 4.5-14x40 A/O Leupold VX-lll to be quite adequate. Plus there are a TON of upgrades you can do to em. I see them all over in the paper, & on Craigslist in the $400 range. Leupold still honors its 100% lifetime warranty no matter who purchased it. Plus you can send it off to the custom shop for reticle, & turrets for cheaper than a new one costs.
I also have a 4.5-14x42 A/O Burris on my 270WSM, & like it as well, but your stuck with whatever youve got. No upgrades available that I know of.
If you choose an 18 or 20 power scope, make sure it fits your hunting style.
I hunt thick & nasty, as well as far as I can see in the desert so I like having the option to crank er down in the dark timber, & open er up for shooting distance.
Just things to consider.
Good luck with your new toy
I'd go minimum of 26" barrel. I personally chose a fluted Hart barrel, with a #4 taper for mine.
If your not into Savages that much, there are more options.
Instead of new, I've found its cheaper or a wash to buy a quality used rifle, like a Win 70, or REM 700 etc., & have it trued, & rebarreled. Seriously.
That leaves you the option to add a trigger, stock, whatever as you can afford it, or have your smith do it all at once while he's re barreling, & truing your action.
At last you won't run the risk of buying a factory lemon that way, & you have an excellent platform to go any direction you choose.
As far as glass goes, I find my 4.5-14x40 A/O Leupold VX-lll to be quite adequate. Plus there are a TON of upgrades you can do to em. I see them all over in the paper, & on Craigslist in the $400 range. Leupold still honors its 100% lifetime warranty no matter who purchased it. Plus you can send it off to the custom shop for reticle, & turrets for cheaper than a new one costs.
I also have a 4.5-14x42 A/O Burris on my 270WSM, & like it as well, but your stuck with whatever youve got. No upgrades available that I know of.
If you choose an 18 or 20 power scope, make sure it fits your hunting style.
I hunt thick & nasty, as well as far as I can see in the desert so I like having the option to crank er down in the dark timber, & open er up for shooting distance.
Just things to consider.
Good luck with your new toy
Red hunter
Well-Known Member
ToKeepAndBear,
Guess I misssed that correction. Sorry about that. Those numbers are impressive although both of my 308win are 22 inch barrels and have several pounds of powder to use up I may try some to see what I can get my rifles to do in the future. One thing about the 308win it takes about twice as long to use up the powder versus the mag rifles I have. Thanks for the info.
Guess I misssed that correction. Sorry about that. Those numbers are impressive although both of my 308win are 22 inch barrels and have several pounds of powder to use up I may try some to see what I can get my rifles to do in the future. One thing about the 308win it takes about twice as long to use up the powder versus the mag rifles I have. Thanks for the info.
winmag
Well-Known Member
If you want inexpensive, guaranteed sub MOA accuracy, & an adjustable trigger, put the Weatherby Vanguard S-2 on your list of rifles to consider.
texasmike
New Member
First, you need to ask yourself if you want to go elk hunting or elk shooting. If you are hunting a shot past 300 yds is rare. Hunting means stalking close enough for a clean kill. Second, a man (or woman) with a good 30-06 bolt gun who can shoot it accurately with a good premium bullet is far more successful than a person with a 300 mag. (or bigger) who can't handle the recoil and shoot it accurately. There are a lot of factors in shooting game at long distance. The ones that do, never mention the wounded ones they did not find. Ask the locals and guides who find the dead elk that didn't survive the winter from that long shot.
Yes I do shoot a 300 win.mag but I shoot it a lot and can handle the recoil. I know too many who can't but still shoot one and would be better off with a 7mm mag. or 30-06 that they can handle the recoil and shoot accurately. Just a thought.gun)
Yes I do shoot a 300 win.mag but I shoot it a lot and can handle the recoil. I know too many who can't but still shoot one and would be better off with a 7mm mag. or 30-06 that they can handle the recoil and shoot accurately. Just a thought.gun)
Texas mike, Welcome to LRHUNTIG. You do notice the namesake? This forum has a lot of dedicated LRH's.The OP intent is to shoot farther as skills progress, have you ever taken game past 300. My son shot 4 big game animals when 15 closest was 350, farthest was 5 pt. bull at dusk @ 540 w/325 wsm, 7-6 0z so it kicks a bit.You just kinda slammed long range hunting in first post.We have lots of places in Montana where a shoot longer than 300 is common.The recoil issue, is a non issue, if like many here,you run a brake. Which on the larger calibers here I would take a guess the majority do. I shot a unbraked 340 WBY for over 10 yrs, how you grow up in shooting has alot to do with it.Shooting is shooting, you have to have the skill and equipment for the task. A friend of mine that is avid hunter, doesnt have formal shooting in his background, just had a rifle built, first test group at 500 yrds. was 1.25 " 7/300wsm
There are so many good choices for elk it can be a tough decision or a very easy one. With the OP specifying 800 yards, well that's a long poke for sure. But it could take many years of hunting to see one that far or that close.
I'm very comfortable with my 7Rem Mags as elk rifles. I also have a 300 RUM, which, IMO, is completely unnecessary for an elk under 500-700 yards. Please spend a lot of trigger time and learn how the ammo you choose does in the wind at ranges b/w 400-800 yards.
300WM is good choice.
I'm very comfortable with my 7Rem Mags as elk rifles. I also have a 300 RUM, which, IMO, is completely unnecessary for an elk under 500-700 yards. Please spend a lot of trigger time and learn how the ammo you choose does in the wind at ranges b/w 400-800 yards.
300WM is good choice.
