Does energy = lethality?

N

necktweaker

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Joined
Feb 6, 2019
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15
Location
Missoula, MT
Hey everybody,

I've recently decided to finally take the plunge into long range shooting / hunting. After probably 10+ years of wanting to, I finally am in a position in my life where I am able to. I've done lots of reading, and watched many videos, and I am thinking my first rifle should be the Savage 12FV (I want to start with low cost, but have the ability to upgrade later). My only question, which is one I have seen asked many times, is 6.5 Creedmoor or .308 Win?

Since this comparison has been discussed ad nauseam, I am not asking for a comparison between the 2. I understand the pros and cons of each. However, I ran into a question that I am unable to answer myself so I am hoping the great users of this forum might be able to provide some insight.

I ran a comparison of what I think would be good hand-loaded bullets for each caliber over on shooterscalculator.com. The comparison can be found at http://www.shooterscalculator.com/ballistic-trajectory-chart.php?t=9aa7d293 .

My proposed use for the rifle would be elk hunting (if I am offered this new job I have interviewed for), or whitetail hunting (if I don't get an offer). I would probably do some coyote / wild pig hunting as well. Ideally, once I am capable, I would like this rifle to be used out to 800 yards.

When looking at the data in the previous link, it shows that at 800 yards the 6.5 Creedmoor has 972 ft. lbf. of energy left. The .308 Win on the other hand has 942 ft. lbf. Since these numbers are comparable, should I assume that both bullets at this range have the same stopping force? Or is there something else that I am missing? (Note that both bullets used in the comparison are Hornady ELD-X).

Thanks!
 
I feel velocity plays a larger role in terminal performance, (shot placement being even more important) therefore, the 6.5 has 300' on the 308 at that range.
 
You have to look at Velocity too. At 800 the CM velocity is 1750 fps. The 308 is only 1456 fps. the 308 bullet probably doesn't have the velocity to initiate expansion of the bullet. So the CM would get the nod at 800 yards.

IMO neither would make a great 800 yard elk cartridge. I would try to stay with 1500 Ft. lb. and 1800 velocity as the minimum for elk.

Also, would probably be a good idea to run the numbers with a lighter bullet for the 308. A 200 gr. bullet may be eating up too much case capacity for good velocity. Maybe a 180 or 175 would work better.
 
I'd contact a couple of different bullet manufacturers and ask them about their bullets terminal performance at the ranges you are interested in shooting.

If anything they will give you minimal velocities or ft.lbf at POI for their bullet to perform optimally.

Internet is a great place to exchange ideas but for what you're looking to do I'd go straight to the designer.
 
Waknstak said:
Check out "the real gunsmith" on you tube..... Specifically his video on poor long range cartridges. I know ever one won't agree with this guy but I find him to be very knowledgeable and truly enjoy the content he puts out
Click to expand...
I love to listen to that old feller. He's great, I am glad someone else thought it was a good idea to record his experiences,thoughts and ideas on ballistics ,hunting, and cartridges.
 
Heavy for caliber high BC 6.5 bullets perform really well - they retain velocity and energy down range with cartridges that have minimal recoil. I would go 6.5 of some flavor. I think savage makes a 6.5 prc and a 6.5x284 that you should look at that will extend your range.
 
Last edited:
necktweaker said:
Hey everybody,

I've recently decided to finally take the plunge into long range shooting / hunting. After probably 10+ years of wanting to, I finally am in a position in my life where I am able to. I've done lots of reading, and watched many videos, and I am thinking my first rifle should be the Savage 12FV (I want to start with low cost, but have the ability to upgrade later). My only question, which is one I have seen asked many times, is 6.5 Creedmoor or .308 Win?

Since this comparison has been discussed ad nauseam, I am not asking for a comparison between the 2. I understand the pros and cons of each. However, I ran into a question that I am unable to answer myself so I am hoping the great users of this forum might be able to provide some insight.

I ran a comparison of what I think would be good hand-loaded bullets for each caliber over on shooterscalculator.com. The comparison can be found at http://www.shooterscalculator.com/ballistic-trajectory-chart.php?t=9aa7d293 .

My proposed use for the rifle would be elk hunting (if I am offered this new job I have interviewed for), or whitetail hunting (if I don't get an offer). I would probably do some coyote / wild pig hunting as well. Ideally, once I am capable, I would like this rifle to be used out to 800 yards.

When looking at the data in the previous link, it shows that at 800 yards the 6.5 Creedmoor has 972 ft. lbf. of energy left. The .308 Win on the other hand has 942 ft. lbf. Since these numbers are comparable, should I assume that both bullets at this range have the same stopping force? Or is there something else that I am missing? (Note that both bullets used in the comparison are Hornady ELD-X).

Thanks!
Click to expand...
If you are going to hunt elk with it why take a knife to a gun fight. There are much better cartridges out there that would be better for long-range target shooting and big game hunting.
 
Deviant said:
If you are going to hunt elk with it why take a knife to a gun fight. There are much better cartridges out there that would be better for long-range target shooting and big game hunting.
Click to expand...

I was originally thinking .308 since the ammo is cheap and this will be my first foray into long range. Then I started looking at 6.5 Creedmoor due to less deflection from wind and the lower recoil.

If 6.5 Creedmoor or .308 aren't sufficient for long range elk, then I just won't hunt elk at long ranges. I really just wanted a good entry cartridge to learn with.

The lower recoil would mainly be nice so that my kids could shoot it when they are a little older.

I guess I have more research to do :)
 
The 6.5 Creedmoor is it good cartridge and it is easy to load for with minimal recoil. I know a lot of people on here hate that caliber but I love shooting mine. That being said mine is set up as a target rifle and never goes on hunting trips. I personally would never shoot an elk at 800 yards with a 6.5 Creedmoor. But for a good entry-level gun and target shooting it is a great caliber and has fairly good Barrel life. There is also an abundance of factory high quality ammo if you don't reload.
 
Is the .308 Win sufficient for elk at shorter ranges? If I end up moving, it would be to an area that has elk and mule deer, so I would hate to not be able to hunt the main species due to a poor purchase decision.

Barrelnut said:
I would try to stay with 1500 Ft. lb. and 1800 velocity as the minimum for elk.
Click to expand...

Based on this requirement, it looks like both 6.5 Creedmoor and .308 Win would be ok out to 450ish yards. But I think I need to contact the bullet manufacturer.
 
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