Do You Plan To Buy A New Truck In The Next Year?

[Boss Hoss]

No more Oil Burners----Urea is not for me... Uncle is going to start taxing the stuffing out of it and then you are toast.

Dodge does not use it on the light duty 2500 & 3500 but the big boys it does-----think they will have to go to it eventually.

Do not like Ford but had to go with them on this truck because the Power Wagon Does Not Have Leather as an option!!! American trucks are the only thing I will buy from the big 3----my other vehicles are MB and Lexus...

 

[Boss Hoss]

Good post, but there's a lot more to what your saying than what you implied. There are actually two different contant notices on the invoice (some folks are so ashamed of them that they virtually hide them). The content notice that most folks see is the actual labor on assembly, and not parts content. A Toyota truck will have a much higher parts content than you might at first think, and a Ford half ton truck will have a lower parts content than you might at first think. The Parts content is what really counts, and you have to know how they manipulate that as well. Does this mean that a Toyota Tundra is a U.S. made truck by Federal spec? Yes and no. It's actually higher than the Ford in case you all didn't know. Ford outsources their forgings and electronics to China and Vietnam. Frames are all made by Dana; no matter what brand name. They all stamp their own bodies, and make their own engines (gas) and transmissions. The third members come from Dana most of the time (not sure about Toyota). But the parts inside their engines come from all over the place, and China is high on their list. (both brands). G.M. is very similar to Toyota in that they stamp their own bodies and Dana supplies the chassis. G.M. does cut their own pistons and cranks, and probably does 85% of the internals in the transmissions. Nobody does those fancey mag wheels, and much of them are made over seas. Nobody does glass anymore, but at least the big three have it done in country. Most of the fabric for the seats is woven in PA for the big three. Asia for the rest. G.M. still manufactures all it's seat frames. Where Chrysler and Ford get theirs done is anybody's guess. Toyotas come from Korea and China. Depending on the model number, the electronic throttles are either souced in the midwest or Asia for all brands except Toyota.

here's kinda what the so called made in USA really is:

* Ford outsources right at 70% of their parts. Of that 70%, roughly 65% is made over seas (The Toyota ad told the hard numbers)

* G.M. does about 73% of their parts in house, and this is down from slightly over 85%. Of the 27% outsourced parts, about a third of these are made over seas

* Chrysler is similar to Ford untill you get into the heavy duty models. A strait stick deisel truck will have a higher parts content than a deisel Ford. In the near future Dodge will start using the Asian automatic in it's heavy duty trucks. This is an Allison AT542 transmission built on license. In the next five years Dodge will use the Allison transmission built by Allison (not G.M. Powertrane). Of course the deisel used by Dodge is built entirely in Indiana.

* Toyota does not make a heavy duty truck, but their half tons run in the 50% to 60% content.

In roughly three years Allison will be selling automatics to whoever wants one. Right now they can't by contractual agreement with G.M. Dodge has alread said they will go with the Allison at the end of the agreement. Ford is still bound and determined to build a heady duty automatic. So far they're not very good. They'd be much better off with the ZF gear box or the AT542 from Asian. Engine wise the Dodge is by far the best (deisel), and they will be offering a half ton deisel very soon (25mpg) that has about 465 ft. lb. of torque. G.M. is on their third complete redesign of their deisel, and looks like they've got it right for a change (cost several billion to make it right). Ford killed Navstar, and decided to build their own engine. No automobile company over here has ever made a good deisel right out of the box, and this will end up being a very expensive lesson to learn. Their new engines are only seeing about 15mpg on the highway right now. Transmission shops love Ford when it comes to trucks I might add. Toyota has made some inquiries to Cummins over the last couple years, but Chrysler owns that engine lock stock & barrel.

There are some new tricks comming down that will had anywhere from three to five mpg on a truck (some are seeing eight). But even they are a solid two years out. And they are just now tooling the parts right now.

Someone posted that they have about 150K miles on a Ford deisel truck. You just got it really broken in! That motor should go about 300K+ miles. We have seen Cummins six's go well over 750K without anything being done to them other than the normal stuff. Mobile One is not the best oil to run in a deisel! Castroil is. We ran test on just about everykind of oil out there, and this was the best period. Also buy the best oil and fuel filters you can buy. Baldwin makes the best. I'll tell you all about engines on the dyno some other time
gary

My 05 Dodge Cummins was built in Mexico and I thought the engine was as well.

 

[blipelt]

Lexus is a glorified Toyota

Work has tried all the big 3 and toyota. The haven't found one that will stand up anymore.


Brent

 

[Michiganhunter]

I wish the old "Big Three" would have built more plants in the rural areas like Toyscrodum and Honda did. The Jap auto companies built where there were mostly farms, and little or no manufacturing jobs. They offered lower paying jobs to people that were glad to have them, and now are loyal to them? Why didn't GM, and the others do the same, only sooner? People say"they are employing Americans", and that is true. Where are the profits going? Also, the Japs have no pensions to pay.....Yet. The rest do, and they pay dearly.
Boss Hoss replied to my post with "content numbers" which to me are appailling. The use of cheap labor overseas for higher profits for U.S. corporations is never ending. Michael Dell was worth 12 Billion dollars back in 2009, yet his manufacturing is now done in China, and his tech support in India? So let's say he kept his company 100% in the U.S. He might only be worth what, 8 Billion? Poor S.O.B. would be shopping at Wallmart!! Bill Gates is the same as Michael Dell, and so on, and so on. Sell out your own people, for more profit? How much money is enough?

 

[Trickymissfit]

No more Oil Burners----Urea is not for me... Uncle is going to start taxing the stuffing out of it and then you are toast.

Dodge does not use it on the light duty 2500 & 3500 but the big boys it does-----think they will have to go to it eventually.

Do not like Ford but had to go with them on this truck because the Power Wagon Does Not Have Leather as an option!!! American trucks are the only thing I will buy from the big 3----my other vehicles are MB and Lexus...

going to go the opposite direction your thinking. The deisels that were made six or eight years ago will soon be by the wayside because they won't meet EPA specs and will not handle some of the new fuels that are in the works. Bio fuels are only the first stage. The next step is to start the removal of oil in deisel. You will not be able to use it in an older deisel, but they can be made to burn extremely clean with better milage. That's why all the development work on the internals on an engine are moving towards oil injecters and . Properly setup an engine could run on three quarts of oil. But right now the oil is not so much used as a lubrecant, but as a way to remove heat from the bearings. Cummins is the absolute leader in oil injection technology when it comes to an internal combustion engine, and this is the key to making the rest of the combination fall into place. The new deisels won't use kerosene, and they are almost ready to market
gary

 

[Trickymissfit]

My 05 Dodge Cummins was built in Mexico and I thought the engine was as well.

your engine was completely built and manufactured in the Whalesboro plant just south of Columbus Indiana. 80% of the outsourced parts are made within 15 minutes of the plant. I'd show you a picture of the plant, but it's nothing but a parking lot! The plant is underground! Where the new half ton deisel will be made, I'm not sure. But rest assured it will be made somewhere very close to Columbus Indiana
gary

 

[Trickymissfit]

I wish the old "Big Three" would have built more plants in the rural areas like Toyscrodum and Honda did. The Jap auto companies built where there were mostly farms, and little or no manufacturing jobs. They offered lower paying jobs to people that were glad to have them, and now are loyal to them? Why didn't GM, and the others do the same, only sooner? People say"they are employing Americans", and that is true. Where are the profits going? Also, the Japs have no pensions to pay.....Yet. The rest do, and they pay dearly.
Boss Hoss replied to my post with "content numbers" which to me are appailling. The use of cheap labor overseas for higher profits for U.S. corporations is never ending. Michael Dell was worth 12 Billion dollars back in 2009, yet his manufacturing is now done in China, and his tech support in India? So let's say he kept his company 100% in the U.S. He might only be worth what, 8 Billion? Poor S.O.B. would be shopping at Wallmart!! Bill Gates is the same as Michael Dell, and so on, and so on. Sell out your own people, for more profit? How much money is enough?

Good post, but there some more to it.

Honda built an assembly plant in Greensberg Indiana a couple years back. The town is roughly an hour south of Indy, and close to midway between Indy and Cinncinatti. The land was there, and they liked the location (friends of mine owned the land they bought). And assembly plant is one thing, but a parts plant is another. G.M. built a huge plant in Tennessee only to find out that there was nobody there that knew how to cut a gear or run a CNC machine center. They ended up bringing folks in from Indiana, Ohio, and Michigan on the skill factor alone. Honda's assembly plant employs about 1600 to 1800 people, and I gather that Honda treats their employees very well. But what most folks fail to realize is that with the assembly plant going in down there; it created about 3000 addition jobs for the area! Everything from the small job shops to the lunch counter. Allison Transmission is located in Speedway Indiana (been there since WWI). They employ about 2500 people (rough guess). Most of the jobs are semi skilled or flat out skilled. Very few low skilled jobs in the place. But they also outsource parts to Fairfield Gear and many job shops in a 125 mile radius. It's a rather large trickle down scheme of things that actually impacts closer to 10,000 jobs. They tried to build a plant in Memphis TN several years ago, and it never made the first part. There wasn't anybody usefull in the local labor pool. Allison is looking for land right now, and I'd have to guess the labor pool will come out of Ohio and Indiana for the gear cutting operations alone.

With what I posted above, we need to rethink the way we educate out kids! When I have to send a kid right out of high school, or with two years of college back to take math courses we got a problem! It takes the average Joe about four to six months to really be able to run a five axis machine center (some never figure it out). Yet all they know is load the part and press a button. Just don't work that way! My Dad was a Master Toolmaker, and he had me reading mics within a tenth by the time I was in the 8th grade. I was turning threads in the 9th. Yet I was never able to completely understand some of the things he simply spoke of as a matter of fact. My Brother Inlaw was the opposite. He was a natural, and the old man thought he could walk on water. Guys like him don't come around very often, and you must take advantage of them when you find one. Yet we want to cut a gear within .00075", and can't figure out why we can't.
gary

 

[Trickymissfit]

ive had my 08 z71 ex. cab for 9 mounths now, ripped off front spoiler chasing whitetails around buffalo co. other than that no complaints, well mabe the gas milage. 20mpg???? maybe just the way i drive. just got a new 250 super duty for work, it about shook my fillings out runnin on interstate I94 yesterday!!

I have a short bed 2005 Chevy half ton with the max weight package and four wheel drive. The engine is the 5.3 with the automatic transmission. Gear ratio is 3.42:1. With the short wheel base it rides like a one ton truck! (only real bitch). Gets about 13 to 14 in town, and about 19.5mpg on the highway. Has no rattles or squeaks, and has been back for warranty work one time in six years when the speedometer decided to stay on 70mph.

Now I'm kinda shopping for a long bed standard cab truck in a similar layout right now. Going to give this one to my son as a birthday gift (the truck is mint with low miles on it). Looked at Fords and Chevys last weekend, and aside from sticker shock I found a few surprises. Most all Fords carry a 50% content on the sticker, and most all Chevys carried 65% or greater. My truck was built in Indiana, and carries a 93% content on the sticker! I have not looked at a Dodge yet, so I won't comment on them. Forget about me looking at a Toyota, cause it ain't gonna happen. I can get a class A discount on all three of the major brands, so I expect them to all come in close.
gary

 

[Trickymissfit]

I will NEVER buy a Chevy /GMC, after the government just gave them a pass on paying taxes on approx. 46 billion dollars of future profit. Thats after sticking the original bond holders when Chevy went broke and the goverment bailed them out, and gave the company to union ownership.

have fun walking! Ford never took stimilus money for sure, but they took tax credits instead (lots and lots of them). In the end it was the same deal. Ford's content is so bad that they no longer can claim to be American made! (67% or more per law). Now we have to watch Toyota laughing at them on TV about their having more U.S. parts than a Ford. But most of all; I wonder how many of those 6,000,000 Jews exterminated in WWII would buy a Turd?
gary

 

[Trickymissfit]

Gary,
What ever you might think of Ford, at least they are a privately run company making a profit, not sucking at the tit of the Federal government getting bailouts and tax breaks. You might want to research your facts alittle more.

your barking up the wrong tree! I came out of the truck market, and probably know enough about what goes on in there to make your hair turn white. None are angels for sure, and will tell you anything to turn a sale. Also I'm not a brand orientated person (must be made in USA). I am an engineering orientated person, and know enough to see thru the hype. Perhaps a month on the dyno would make most of us here puke.
gary

 

[Trickymissfit]

nope actually getting rid of the 2wd tacoma for a mitsubishi outlander...dont judge me im a single dad and need the room. and before you all say i should get a 4dr full sized truck i just cant afford it. 28years old, single dad of a 3yo little girl and in college. gotta kill to eat not look cool

The new Nissan full sized truck will be built by Dodge for them. Rumor in the industry is that Mitsubishi may enter the market, and they already have a one ton that is as good as I've ever seen (extremely ugly though). It has everything going for it! Uses a Mitsubishi Deisel and a couple U.S. made deisels as well. Transmission is an Allison series 2000 (one size heavier than the one G.M. uses). Has a bed that dumps and tilts to the side! But is somewhat shallower than what we normally think of. Pay load is probably 25% greater than an American one ton. They've been building it for about four years now, but don't sell them over here.

There is a new power pack comming out right now that will add roughly three to five mpg to any truck out there. The problem is that a pick up truck is number four or five on the list. The first ones will be in town delivery vans. Later another series of light duty deisels will hit the markets with about 25mpg and a standard automatic transmission. With the new generation hybrid automatic you may see 27mpg or even 28.5mpg. The torque rating on these engines is around 470 ft. lb., and should be able to pull anybody's boat with ease. Dodge is tinkering around with a 1240 ft. lb. one ton truck right now! Uses a 600 series medium duty Allison gearbox (very similar to the powerpack in a Stryker). The engine is similar to the current 800 ft. lb. engine they already offer. What for? Ford is having issues with their new deisel already, and fuel milage is zilch on a good day! 12mpg is common on the highway, and a good one will get about 14.5mpg. That's a lot of money to spend to reduce gas milage by 8mpg! 35K is about all their transmission is good for, but transmission shops love them Look for G.M. and Dodge to widen their frames four to five inches for something new behind the engines (hint: it has only four moving parts). Lots of new stuff comming down the pipe line these days!
gary

 

[Boss Hoss]

When I buy a vehicle it is the best one I can buy for my needs. Bought a Ford Raptor to replace the 09 Chevy 6.2L because of all of the problems I had with it. Fractured wrist pin bushing on #8, 2 rear main seals, one oil pan gasket and a bearing in the left front wheel assy all in 18 months. No more Government Motors for me until they come up with something really good in the future.

Funny thing about the rest of my vehicles---the MB's have had many over the years and have had several Lexus products not one mechanical problem. The Raptor is brand new and the drive shaft already needs to be replaced TSB was issued earlier this week!

When bloated union labor is eliminated which is one reason the cost of the vehicles is so high maybe I will consider one again. You can boo hoo all you want about being built in America but with the global economy being firmly established those days are dead and buried. I will continue to buy the best in class and if it happens to say Ford or MB that is just the way it is.

 

[Trickymissfit]

When I buy a vehicle it is the best one I can buy for my needs. Bought a Ford Raptor to replace the 09 Chevy 6.2L because of all of the problems I had with it. Fractured wrist pin bushing on #8, 2 rear main seals, one oil pan gasket and a bearing in the left front wheel assy all in 18 months. No more Government Motors for me until they come up with something really good in the future.

Funny thing about the rest of my vehicles---the MB's have had many over the years and have had several Lexus products not one mechanical problem. The Raptor is brand new and the drive shaft already needs to be replaced TSB was issued earlier this week!

When bloated union labor is eliminated which is one reason the cost of the vehicles is so high maybe I will consider one again. You can boo hoo all you want about being built in America but with the global economy being firmly established those days are dead and buried. I will continue to buy the best in class and if it happens to say Ford or MB that is just the way it is.

not trying to start WWIII here, but Union labor has zero to do with your problems. Ford didn't build the drive shaft! It was their design and probably built in Asia, or by NTN in Colubus In. Ford builds about 30% of the parts in anything they sell unless it's a one ton or heavier truck. The guy making the parts just makes them to the spec engineering gives him. So you can expect that 60% of a Ford is non union manufactured, and the 10% that is union manufactured but not made by Ford is from Dana and maybe one other source. The largest North American content I've seen on a Ford truck is about 55%, and many fall in under 50%.

A G.M. truck will come at 62% or higher with a U.S. & Canadian content. My half ton came in at 93%, and was built in Indiana. A Toyota half ton will be close to 60%, and even it has it's problems.

By the way the last time I looked in Ward's the number one car for initial quality in the world was a Buick Lucerne comming in at slightly over half the the price of the number two car. An $80K Lexus. The difference between the two is very slight (one defect in 10,000 units). The bottom ten in warranty costs per unit are from BMW, Mercedes, and a couple Korean and Jap cars. BMW holds five of the slots if you count the Range Rover. Mercedes has one or two, and Honda and Toyota each have one. Interestingly all the bottom ten are non union built!
gary

 

[Boss Hoss]

I have seen those numbers as well BUT---always question them because there are a quite a few people such as myself who never participate in the surveys either by mail, phone or internet. Hell I have even had some of them send me cash through the mail lol. Several people that I do know will make it a point to fill out the surveys because it makes them feel better.

I did make a mistake above and it was an honest one. MB did buy back my 2000 ML55 AMG because of a transfer case module that they could not fix even – sucker would go into low range when stopped for no reason…..

To your point about union labor----the overhead structure includes the higher touch labor costs which in turn leave less resources ($$$$) for Engineering, Processes and Materials given a product that has to sell at a certain price point.

Everything is relative here because supporting the pensions and benefits of retirees at the levels they have to is still killing the big 3 in the marketplace. To top it off most of the people we are talking about are on the other side of the isle and support people I cannot. Like to vote with my pocketbook if you will.…