Discontinued: IMR Enduron powders.

[Muddyboots]

Let's not run off the cliff like a bunch of lemmings! If you have a 8# jug for a certain rifle load, you are good to go for prob life of rifle with couple pounds more. I wouldn't change a thing if I had a really good load, have powder for life of that rifle and of course primers.

It sux if you really like the powder but IMO use it up as you would have if it was still available. There are other powders out there for load development for different rifles. Ramshot and Accurate have provided some really nice loads for me versus Hodgdon, Alliant or Vihtavouri.

Let's not jump off cliff if it is not temp stable cause we cannot shoot with other powders. Really? RL26 is not temp stable by definition so why can't we find any... is it cause everyone wants to shoot it? Understanding affects of temp is just part of reloading and shooting sports.

 

[floyd kittrell]

Normal IMR powder line to continue?

4451 had some serious promise, sadly it'll probably get burned up in ho-hum 30-06 plinking loads now.

Sir, I will be traveling from Spanish Fort , Alabama to Norman Oklahoma on 11-25-22 . I normally try to avoid the Dallas - Fort Worth area at all cost but will be more than happy and honored to make exception if I can help a brother out . I have 1 pound each of Enduron 4451,4955,7977 and 4166 that we can make a trade , sell or if you can not do either , I will just give you what you need. I bought these for three tests in my 3 30 cal hunting rifles but never got around to it as all three had shot out barrels in rapid succession. In case anyone else is interested in a meet up on this trip I will be hunting around Taloga , Oklahoma for a week then drive due south to Rio Vista Texas (Doak Ranch) then home the next week due East on I-10 to Spanish Fort , Alabama. If I can help anyone let me know. If you need any reference as to who I am and have no ill intent , I would hope Mr. George Taylor could ease your mind and vouch for me. I don't do computer very well so I can get Mr. George to P.M. my phone number to you.
Floyd

 

[LRNut]

Let's not run off the cliff like a bunch of lemmings! If you have a 8# jug for a certain rifle load, you are good to go for prob life of rifle with couple pounds more. I wouldn't change a thing if I had a really good load, have powder for life of that rifle and of course primers.

It sux if you really like the powder but IMO use it up as you would have if it was still available. There are other powders out there for load development for different rifles. Ramshot and Accurate have provided some really nice loads for me versus Hodgdon, Alliant or Vihtavouri.

Let's not jump off cliff if it is not temp stable cause we cannot shoot with other powders. Really? RL26 is not temp stable by definition so why can't we find any... is it cause everyone wants to shoot it? Understanding affects of temp is just part of reloading and shooting sports.

Good post Muddy. I would also that in my experience, a really accurate rifle will shoot accurately with a variety of powders. I used Retumbo in two Lapuas and two 300 RUMs. When it got hard to find, I tried 8133 in one of the Lapuas and one RUM. Viola! In another RUM I found N570 worked perhaps even better than Retumbo. And to your point, I have just under 16 lbs of 8133 - enough to burn up at least one barrel if not two.

 

[Petey308]

Let's not run off the cliff like a bunch of lemmings! If you have a 8# jug for a certain rifle load, you are good to go for prob life of rifle with couple pounds more. I wouldn't change a thing if I had a really good load, have powder for life of that rifle and of course primers.

It sux if you really like the powder but IMO use it up as you would have if it was still available. There are other powders out there for load development for different rifles. Ramshot and Accurate have provided some really nice loads for me versus Hodgdon, Alliant or Vihtavouri.

Let's not jump off cliff if it is not temp stable cause we cannot shoot with other powders. Really? RL26 is not temp stable by definition so why can't we find any... is it cause everyone wants to shoot it? Understanding affects of temp is just part of reloading and shooting sports.

An 8lb keg of 8133, in a typical cartridge suited for that burn rate, would last around 600-700 rounds. That's not that much if you practice a lot. It's certainly not the life of the rifle, unless you only shoot it for load development, just before hunting season, and then hunting season only.

There are so many powders and made by so many different facilities, and a lot are the same powder under a different label. It's hard for these facilities to keep up with demand and fill every order. Those in highest demand are likely the focus and they likely can't manufacture every product line at one, so they have to do batches. Switching things over takes a lot of time too, I'm sure.

Yes, there are thankfully other options out there, but when you find something you like, it sucks when it's taken away. And yes, in the meantime you can keep using what you have until it's time to switch to something else. Heck, by then you may have to switch to different brass, bullets, primers, etc too due to unavailability there as well.

 

[DaleJ]

In 2020 a General Dynamics plant in Quebec was destroyed by fire following an explosion. Don't know if that explains Enduron IMR powders exit.

 

[beastiet]

That figures! Finally got a really good load for 7mm rem mag using 8133!! Now have to start all over again!!

 

[LRNut]

"An 8lb keg of 8133, in a typical cartridge suited for that burn rate, would last around 600-700 rounds. That's not that much if you practice a lot. It's certainly not the life of the rifle"

Depends how you practice. I shoot on average 2.5 rounds per day from my Lapua (one shot under one wind condition and/or range). It takes a year for me to shoot 700 rounds. Ditto for one of my RUMs. Sure, if you shoot 20 shots at a time you will burn through 700 in just over a month, but that isn't a great way to practice IMO (anyone can correct for a bad wind call on the second shot).

I assume most people using Enduron powders don't have brand new barrels (me, for example) so 8-16 lbs should get you through.

 

[Schw15]

I have a good stash of imr 8133 I was trying to switch to n568 or so. I'm in Colorado if anyone wants to trade. I'm actually curious about the replacement powder the guy mentioned to me. I like the imr 8133 not in love with it. It's always been accurate and good sd.

 

[Schw15]

In 2020 a General Dynamics plant in Quebec was destroyed by fire following an explosion. Don't know if that explains Enduron IMR powders exit.

I think that's what it was honestly

 

[Petey308]

In 2020 a General Dynamics plant in Quebec was destroyed by fire following an explosion. Don't know if that explains Enduron IMR powders exit.

It was a small building that stored powder. No deaths or injuries. So definitely not the whole plant. They have incidents at powder facility often, unfortunately. There was a death there last February from another explosion too.

I'd say the inability to provide the Enduron powders to Hodgdon is more than likely more so due to all their defense contracts taking priority.

To my knowledge, the Enduron powders were unique and supposedly environmentally friendly, and had a decoppering agent as well as they were treated for additional temp stability. So it's not something likely duplicated at other facilities like Nitrochemie, Bofors, PB Claremont, Lovex, Nobel, etc.

There is still rumor of a replacement product coming. We shall see. I'd assume it this point it will be as close to the Enduron powders as wherever it's coming from can make. Who knows, it could be better lol.

 

[Petey308]

I have a good stash of imr 8133 I was trying to switch to n568 or so. I'm in Colorado if anyone wants to trade. I'm actually curious about the replacement powder the guy mentioned to me. I like the imr 8133 not in love with it. It's always been accurate and good sd.

I've recently found N565 is a really good suitable supp for 8133 abd takes up less case capacity and won't be as compressed as 8133. N568 looks to be more similar to 8133, in that it produces similar speeds and fills the case about the same. So depending on your particular cartridge and bullet combo, N565 or 568 would work well in place of 8133. Both are proven temp stable too.

 

[Petey308]

"An 8lb keg of 8133, in a typical cartridge suited for that burn rate, would last around 600-700 rounds. That's not that much if you practice a lot. It's certainly not the life of the rifle"

Depends how you practice. I shoot on average 2.5 rounds per day from my Lapua (one shot under one wind condition and/or range). It takes a year for me to shoot 700 rounds. Ditto for one of my RUMs. Sure, if you shoot 20 shots at a time you will burn through 700 in just over a month, but that isn't a great way to practice IMO (anyone can correct for a bad wind call on the second shot).

I assume most people using Enduron powders don't have brand new barrels (me, for example) so 8-16 lbs should get you through.

Yes, it obviously all depends on how you practice and how often you actually shoot. That was the point I was trying to make. For some, an 8lb keg will left a very long time, for others, it might last a month or only a few months.

I have multiple rifles using the sand powders too, so an 8lb keg doesn't last long when it's divided among a few different rifles.

Everyone's situation varies.

 

[Schw15]

I've recently found N565 is a really good suitable supp for 8133 abd takes up less case capacity and won't be as compressed as 8133. N568 looks to be more similar to 8133, in that it produces similar speeds and fills the case about the same. So depending on your particular cartridge and bullet combo, N565 or 568 would work well in place of 8133. Both are proven temp stable too.

Yes I have 8 pounds of n568 seemed pretty much like imr 8133 I only tested 2 rounds I'm saving it for my new 30 nosler barrel

 

[blvette75]

Not sure why yet, as it was just announced, but Hodgdon will no longer offer any of the IMR Enduron product line of powders.

I can only assume General Dynamics (who makes the actual powder) can no longer keep making it for them. I know they used to make a lot of powder for Hodgdon and after they were awarded a huge defense contract they told Hodgdon they'd only be able to keep making the Enduron powders available to them. Perhaps they can't even do that now. It would explain why finding a lot of those powders has been extremely hard the last few months while others coming from Australia and Europe are still showing up here and there.

The Enduron powders are also made in Canada and it's possible with all the political mess going on up there it has played a part. That's purely speculation though.

Well not much of a conspiracy theorist, however this is the ultimate spin on gun control, Biden economics just give an incentive to general dymanic to quit making powders for gun owner use. With only one powder factory left we will soon be disarmed.