Discontinued: IMR Enduron powders.

[venatic]

There are supposedly some St Marks powders that are being used by manufacturers that are very temp stable but not being released to the public market at this time. It would be nice to have Ball powders that are as stable as extruded powders on the market.

 

[hesse]

Why do you think they broke up Dupont. My father said years ago . Mark my words they can't take your guns but they can make it hard to shoot it . If you don't have ammo then all u have is a boat orr

 

[Schw15]

So I called Imr like a month ago and had a conversation with them about imr 8133. I asked them what was going on they haven't dropped any in awhile. They said issues at plant it was made in and was going to be a very long time to fix that. I told him dang that sucks I pretty much only shoot imr 8133 that's all I had pretty much powder wise. He finally told me that they are no longer going to produce it and to keep my eye open this fall for replacement powder that was coming.

Ramshot lrt has been a decent test powder for replacement with better speeds but harder to tune for loads. I shot it in 50 to 82 degrees and been pretty stable in that range.

 

[Petey308]

Why do you think they broke up Dupont. My father said years ago . Mark my words they can't take your guns but they can make it hard to shoot it . If you don't have ammo then all u have is a boat orr

It all started with the 1902 Sherman Anti-trust Act. That paved the way to break up the monopolies if the railroad, Standard Oil, as well as DuPont.

The government wanted to prevent the price gouging snd cartel-like behavior of some of these huge companies. A few years after the Sherman Anti-trust Act happened, the "Powder Trust" started.

DuPont split into two main subsidiaries as a result, and thus came Hercules and Atlas powder companies. DuPont already owned and used the IMR label too. They actually were allowed to keep supplying not only the US military, but allied forces in Europe during the wars.

Hercules later sold to Alliant Techsystems (ATK) and rebranded the Hercules powders as Alliant. ATK later merged with Orbital Sciences Corporation, and renamed to Orbital ATK. That company even held the contract for several years to operate the Lake City Ammunition plant. They owned Federal Premium as well, which is the main entity that was truly operating the Lake City plant at the time.

Vista Outdoors eventually spun out of Orbital ATK in 2015, and took with it brands such as Federal and Alliant Powder. Orbital ATK was purchased not long after by Northrop Grumman abc rebranded once again. Vista, however, remains it's own company, no longer affiliated with Orbital ATK or Northrop Grumman. Vista is now actually set to split itself into to entire too.

Long story short, the US government, along with other lobbyists and businessmen tried to stop monopolies at the turn of the last century, but here we are again around 100-120 years later with very similar monopolies building again.

 

[brianreynolds26]

That's a major bummer I was beginning to really like 4451.

Me to, it's my favorite for my 6.5 Creedmoor

 

[JAYgs8163]

So this applies to only the Enduron line of powders, where are the standard IMR powders made which have been showing up, IMR-4350, IMR-4895, etc..?

 

[Libbylogger]

Dang I picked up 2 pounds each of 8133 and 4955. Was going to use them for load development but now what's the point. I guess I'll find a trade partner.

 

[2buffalo]

Why do you think they broke up Dupont. My father said years ago . Mark my words they can't take your guns but they can make it hard to shoot it . If you don't have ammo then all u have is a boat orr

And we have people on this forum screaming to break up Vista.....

 

[Bud LaRoche]

What we need is a few more powder AND primer manufacturers. I know someone in Texas just spent 100 million $$$ to open a new primer plant.

I thought I read that the Texas company that was remodeling the old Munitions facility to make primers switched gears and started making ammo.

 

[7mmTikkaShooter]

Dang I picked up 2 pounds each of 8133 and 4955. Was going to use them for load development but now what's the point. I guess I'll find a trade partner.

I have 1 lb of 4831 SC I would gladly trade for 1 lb of 8133. Wish I had more to offer but that's the only unopened stuff I have. PM me if you're interested in a trade.

 

[Petey308]

So this applies to only the Enduron line of powders, where are the standard IMR powders made which have been showing up, IMR-4350, IMR-4895, etc..?

Last I knew, many were still made at the facility in Canada, currently owned by General Dynamics. But I've seen kegs of IMR powders also marked recently as "Manufacturered in Scotland" and "Manufactured in Sweden".

So it appears Hodgdon is sourcing from wherever they can get it made to a spec that closely resembles the properties of the original. So I would say it depends on the year and lot number, ultimately.

 

[Petey308]

The facility in Canada was previously owned and operated by DuPont and sold powders there with the IMR label. To my knowledge, when General Dynamics purchased that facility, the IMR label was purchased by Hodgdon at the same time. After that, Hodgdon continued to acquire IMR powders from General Dynamics from that facility. It would appear they've had a lot of issues getting powders from them on a regular basis since, and have had to seek out other facilities overseas to get certain powders made available to us. I'd say no other facility can/would make the Enduron powders, or isn't allowed to, so Hodgdon ultimately made the decision to discontinue the product line rather than continue to fight getting it and telling customers they're trying and to be patient and keep their hopes up. I can respect that.

As far as the St. Marks facility… that was once owned by Olin-Winchester and has since also been acquired by General Dynamics. So GD has a ball powder facility in FL and an extruded powder facility in Canada. Both supply the military as well. St, Marks also supplies Hodgdon with all the ball powders they offer, to include the Winchester labels. That facility also makes the Alliant ball powders, which are the Power-Pro series.

Alliant's Reloder series are split between the Bofors plant in Sweden and the Nitrochemie facility in Switzerland.

Accurate and Ramshot Powders are made by the PB Clermont facility in Belgium, although I have some aa2200 that says made in USA, so St. Marks. Also, the extruded Accurate powders, such as as2015, are made in Canada.

It would appear at times, Hodgdon has acquired certain IMR labeled powders from the Nobel Enterprises facility in Scotland, as well as Nitrochemie in Switzerland, as I have IMR labeled powder made in all three locations. Also, it should be noted that IMR 8208 XBR comes from ADI in Australia and is the only IMR labeled powder that does. All the extruded "Extreme" line of Hodgdon powders comes from ADI as well.

Just wanted to elaborate further on sources of powder and such, for those interested.

 

[MKWas]

That sucks! I bought an 8 lb jug of 4166 a few years ago when other powders were hard to come by. Now that I have several good loads for my 30.06 it's going away!

 

[cb186]

Anyone looking for 4451 and are going to be near the Minneapolis/St. Paul area, I have (2) 8's (and I believe a friend has one) that I'd trade(or sell) for certain powders.