Diminishing returns on reloading dies

[Triggerhead Ed]

Ed Shilling put a .243 Win
light varmint barrel on my Sako action in 1985
I bought a Lee collit neck sizer and 100 rounds of Winchester brass and Nosler 100gr bullets
It still shoots .5 MOA
I clean every 100 rounds
Still loading with the same lee Collit neck dies

 

[jebel]

These seem to be dies for advanced users and I'm wondering if it's something a novice like myself can utilize fully.

SavageHunter11: You can decide your own pace. The fact is, there is always more to learn. It all seems more complex than it actually is, until we spend some time learning about it. To use bushing dies, there is some additional work up front to determine your target neck dimension. You'll need a tube micrometer, as a caliper won't do the job.

Take a look at this video from Panhandle Precision. It was pretty much made for you, I think. Redding Type S Full Length Bushing Die: How to Set Up and Size Cases

 

[Dirtrax]

i disagree with a non bushing die.
neck thickness can vary by lots even if turned.
no way to vary neck tension without a bushing.

just not a good starting point IMHO

I use a variety of dies but to say "no way to vary neck tension without a bushing" implies there is but one way to adjust a die. I respectfully disagree.

 

[Alex Wheeler]

Redding full length s-die (or any full length bushing die) and a wilson micrometer seater is the best option. You will love the wilson seater especially taking it to the range for load work. K&M is my my favorite arbor press for the wilson.

 

[ar10ar15man]

but you cannot increase tension with out a smaller bushing, you maybe able to reduce with less neck sizing but that limits case sizing also.

I use a variety of dies but to say "no way to vary neck tension without a bushing" implies there is but one way to adjust a die. I respectfully disagree.

 

[Alex Wheeler]

The pressure ring on the bullet and the powder will determine how much neck tension your setup will like. Dont be afraid to experiment!

 

[SealT5]

I love my Wilson dies and km press. Buy a Wilson blank and have your smith chamber it with the same reamer. Bam you have a custom seater

 

[redleg1013]

but you cannot increase tension with out a smaller bushing, you maybe able to reduce with less neck sizing but that limits case sizing also.

Pull the expander ball, from there there one can choose to make the expander ball smaller using a drill and some 1500 sandpaper, or using expander mandrels. For instance, I resize without an expander ball, and use a neck turning mandrel (.306) instead of the "standard" expander mandrel (.307 - which is the same size as the stock expander ball). I get straight, true necks, an extra thou of tension, and I don't stretch the shoulder; as the expansion occurs as the mandrel is entering the case.

Lee also makes undersized mandrels for their collet neck sizing dies (you have to call and order them).

So, there's three ways to do it without bushings... which btw my first and only Redding bushing was off size, and off center.

 

[Dirtrax]

You are implying that there is but one way to apply pressure to a case neck. The lee collet allows for multiple mandrel sizing and an infinite amount of pressure exerted on the case neck. If the brass is annealed one has full control over neck tension. Works for me. Neck size with one die and body size with another.

but you cannot increase tension with out a smaller bushing, you maybe able to reduce with less neck sizing but that limits case sizing also.

 

[ar10ar15man]

and that is more expensive , more time consuming,and completely backwards from the current process. one sizing die and bushings.
you work in the past, it is ok, the rest of us are looking forward.

You are implying that there is but one way to apply pressure to a case neck. The lee collet allows for multiple mandrel sizing and an infinite amount of pressure exerted on the case neck. If the brass is annealed one has full control over neck tension. Works for me. Neck size with one die and body size with another.

 

[Dirtrax]

I appreciate your experience and expertise. I also value your opinion...to a point. It seems to frustrate you when folks see things differently which is fine, but thinly veiled insults are not necessary. This is a conversation not a contest.

 

[Greyfox]

I've used two sizes targeting 1 tho and 2 tho neck tension. Both with same run out. Four tho runout isn't terrible but I have a good process on other dies to get 2 tho consistently. It still shoots great.

I probably should have been more concise in my question. I was referring to having sufficient play of the bushing within the dye housing. Tightening the thumb screw on the top of the dye so a slight clicking can be heard when shaking the dye. I have found that the degree of bushing "play" can effect the run-out,

 

[Fin-addictions]

That's weird. I just pulled mine apart and no "O" ring or pin in the bottom sliding collet. Very strange. Perhaps these parts are only included in larger calibers?

If the bullet window is holding the bullet the pin is still in there.

 

[WildRose]

I've always had great success using Redding dies and in my opinion would be money well spent. I'm also waiting on a .280AI to be returned by my Gunsmith and there's a brand new Redding Type S bushing die set sitting on my reloading table waiting as well. Waiting.....

I've had great luck with both Redding and Hornady Custom dies.

Custom dies made to your chamber/round are more expensive but they are worth the money.