Diminishing returns on reloading dies

[Darktimber]

For my 280ai i have redding type s sizing die and comp. Seating die. It was more money than i ever thought id spend on dies but they are very nice and being able to fine tune the seating depth precisely is just delightful.

I always used to use the standard rcbs sets with ok results but now im slowly working on getting the comp seaters for all my main calibers.

 

[seawolfxix]

What bushings are you talking about specifically?

Westex91 beat me to it

 

[Jeffrey Van Zandt]

My barreled action in 280A.I. should be arriving soon and I've been starting to plan out my load development. Been trying to decide how much money to spend on my reloading dies. At what price point do you start to get diminishing returns on your reloading dies? I was looking at a 3 die Redding set (Master Hunter series I think?) for about $120-$130 but i don't know enough about reloading equipment to know if this is the best way to spend my money for reloading dies. Any help, advice, or guidance would be appreciated. Thank you.

I use all sinclair and wilson for my long range work lee dies for large close work rifles and a dillion for my hand guns and gas guns

 

[jrock]

For you S-bushing die users, what are you doing to keep your run out down? I can't seem to get consistent run out and its in the .004" range. I've used the o-ring methods but they didn't improve it much. My RCBS dies are 0.001 to 0.002 run out. Can't really tell the difference on paper though.

 

[Greyfox]

For you S-bushing die users, what are you doing to keep your run out down? I can't seem to get consistent run out and its in the .004" range. I've used the o-ring methods but they didn't improve it much. My RCBS dies are 0.001 to 0.002 run out. Can't really tell the difference on paper though.

Possibly too tight on the bushing?

 

[SavageHunter11]

Think of it in terms of the amount of work done to the neck. Working the metal induces hardness, which eventually causes brittleness and failure.

A non-bushing die does this:
1) On the downstroke, push the neck in beyond the desired point.
2) On the upstroke, pulls an expander ball through the neck, pushing it out to the desired point.

A bushing die with the expander ball removed does this:
1) on the downstroke, push the neck in to the desired point. Done. Less work on the neck.

It takes a bit of work to identify the exact desired point. The goal is to shape the neck to around .001-.003" smaller than the diameter of the bullet. This is termed neck tension because it's the tension gripping the bullet when you squeeze it in there. Because different brands/lots of brass differ in their neck thickness, you must measure this to set the die to size right.

The bushings are the sizers. They come in different increments to size the neck just right.

These seem to be dies for advanced users and I'm wondering if it's something a novice like myself can utilize fully. I know how to use a caliper effectively but there seems to be many advanced factors here my reloading manuals introduction section failed to mention (i.e. runout, neck tension, etc). I guess my question is, can a novice utilize these dies to their full potential and is there a book or website that goes into these finer details on reloading to help me squeeze out all the accuracy?

I can already tell my new reloading hobby is going to be a hell of a rabbit hole to go down...

 

[jrock]

Possibly too tight on the bushing?

I've used two sizes targeting 1 tho and 2 tho neck tension. Both with same run out. Four tho runout isn't terrible but I have a good process on other dies to get 2 tho consistently. It still shoots great.

 

[wonderman4]

I have never had a problem with standard RCBS dies and get 0.000"-0.001" runout consistently. I do outside neck turning once, then start loading.

The one piece that I do modify is the seating stem. I custom fit the seater to the bullets that I use and get some very good results CBTO wise.

 

[redleg1013]

I use FL non bushing dies from Forster in my CoAx press, my runout is consistently less than a thou. +1 on watching Erik Cortina's videos on the subject.

 

[drdool]

My dad who taught me to reload over 30 yrs ago only used RCBS and we loaded some very concentric ammo over the years with them. After trying just about everything since, I just order the Redding type S FL with bushing for sizer but use the Forster micrometer for the seater cause numbers on the dial are bigger.

As for diminishing returns, well the above has worked best for me. Is it worth the extra cost only you can decide that. You can load some darn good Ammo with the Lee collet dies and they cost next nothing.

 

[John Klingenberg]

Redding makes very good dies, but I've loaded a lot of good, accurate ammo with plain old RCBS dies. I bought a lot of Hornady dies but I'm at a point that I dont care for them and probably wont buy any more. I dont care for the zip spindles and the depriming pins always get loose and break. The expander balls dont like to stay tightened on mine even with loctite. My 10+ year old hornady are fine but the last 5 years have been iffy.

 

[birdiemc]

I started out a few years ago and just bought the Lee 3 Die sets. I used them and have been figuring out how all this works. When I have had questions about what's going on with my reloads I post them on here and get lots of helpful advice. Surprisingly nobody has ever told me my problem is the dies I'm using (that I can recall anyway). They have sent me in every other direction and had me buy all kinds of other crap to squeeze out tiny improvements but not once was I instructed that the issues I was experiencing were due to inferior dies. However, recently in a discussion about neck turning it was recommended that redding S type bushing does could be beneficial in my efforts. I did a lot of research and this week ordered a set. They havent arrived yet so I have no opinion to offer on them.
But i can tell you what I would have done differently looking back, and what i would recommend for somebody just getting into it. Buy an inexpensive set like the Lee's. They are great for learning without a big investment. Just buy one though. Dont buy for every rifle you own. Focuse on learning with just one cartridge. Once you're comfortable then decide if you want to move up to a higher quality product with more bells and whistles. I have to believe that the $200 dies are better than the $30 but if you have no experience, no foundation then you cant expect to get $200 of value out of it. But you will be able to get quite a bit of education and experience using a $30 set that you can build on down the road without the huge investment up front. I'm also a huge believer in the buy once cry once philosophy, so that's why I recommend only buying 1 and learn on that. Dont be like me, I bought 9mm, 223rem,308win,270win,6.5cm in Lee sets, only ever used the 308win, and now want to move up to better quality. Consider that $30 lee set an investment into your education.

These seem to be dies for advanced users and I'm wondering if it's something a novice like myself can utilize fully. I know how to use a caliper effectively but there seems to be many advanced factors here my reloading manuals introduction section failed to mention (i.e. runout, neck tension, etc). I guess my question is, can a novice utilize these dies to their full potential and is there a book or website that goes into these finer details on reloading to help me squeeze out all the accuracy?

I can already tell my new reloading hobby is going to be a hell of a rabbit hole to go down...

 

[Hardshot]

These seem to be dies for advanced users and I'm wondering if it's something a novice like myself can utilize fully. I know how to use a caliper effectively but there seems to be many advanced factors here my reloading manuals introduction section failed to mention (i.e. runout, neck tension, etc). I guess my question is, can a novice utilize these dies to their full potential and is there a book or website that goes into these finer details on reloading to help me squeeze out all the accuracy?

I can already tell my new reloading hobby is going to be a hell of a rabbit hole to go down...

 

[Hardshot]

Just keep a open mind there's lots to keep learning if you choose to refine loading