Deciding on a 7mm. 7mm rem mag/ 7mm wsm

[Wild Monkey]

I understand that. It doesnt mean belts are getting shoved down our throats. It's been years since a belted cartridge was introduced.

1904

The 11.2 X 72 SCHULER was introduced in 1904 and produced until WW2. It utilises the rebated rim design which will fit the bolt of the M88 8mm mauser case.

1913

Newton cartridges
It was loaded with 123 gr (8 g) with a muzzle velocity of 3,103 ft/s (946 m/s), and 2,632 ft⋅lbf (3,569 J) of energy. The . 30 Newton was high-velocity, rimless centerfire cartridge introduced in 1913. It was based on a German caliber of the period, the 11.2x72 Schuler.
1962

The 7mm Remington Magnum rifle cartridge was introduced as a commercially available round in 1962,[2] along with the new Remington Model 700 bolt-action rifle. It is a member of the belted magnum family that is directly derived from the venerable .375 H&H Magnum.

58 Years later! So yea, next year will be another 58 Years! 116 Years later and we are still using the Belted Cartridge and we don't even need it anymore. I know I'm thick, but hey.

Edit;
I stumbled on a Conversation regarding Newton Cases the Speer company and it's lawsuit 1948-1950 from Weatherby for an order of over 250 thousand cases. Apparently they were using a new unproven "impact extrusion" process to make the cases. Invariably Since we now know Speer was making Newton Cases as late as 1950! and this could have attributed to the Extinction of Newton Cartridges. So it would seem the Belted Manufacturing Process was flawless and maybe... the Newton design was somehow Blacklisted due to an inferior unrefined "Extrusion" manufacturing method that ended in a Lawsuit with Weatherby. This might be the Key. It is very likely there was animosity between Speer and several of his Rivals and I think Ackley was using Speer Newton Brass to form Wildcats back in the day. Further details uncover Speer was importing 30 Newton Cases from Germany from a company by the name of DWM without Headstamps. It is at this time Speer was often sizing the 30 Newton up and down and some were used for more modern 7mm-30 Newton applications. Off topic, but historically significant.

 

[Canhunter35]

(Long Post of drivel so get ready) Why do we even have the 7mm Rem Mag with a Belt? I had to rewrite this post. It just doesn't sit well with me. There was a .280 Newton near a Hundred Years ago. Only it wasn't the exact same bore size and Rifling we have today with the Standardized 7mm. Truth is the perfect 7mm died out somehow and then was reinvented on a budget using outdated existing Brass Belt Manufacturing. It's got that Short Neck because it had to have More powder than the 7X61mm S&H. IMO the S&H is a far superior Cartridge. Speed sells and they got over on the American Public with the 7RM with the Performance aspect. It's on every Shelf, it's darn good, and it's Cheap and affordable, it's just not the Best. Your not going to get the same performance out of a Short Action unless you don't mind Excessive Barrel wear, they just won't offer enough Boiler Room. The Newton and the 7X61mm were created to fire much lighter Bullets and if you want to shoot the 180 grain projectile with efficiency your gonna need the Boiler Room to do it effectively. This is why the 7mm Blaser improved is doing so well right now. There are reasons, maybe we don't fully understand them, but a Longer Neck works better. As Americans we gotta have more and it's gotta be bigger, I just think the Nozler is overindulgent. (7-WM)

I was keen on a blaser mag, but finding brass, reamer and dies in Canada was a pain so I just went with a rem mag. Sometimes it's easier to swim with the current lol

 

[xsn10s]

I'd take a 7mm RM over the 7mm WSM because of brass availability. Plenty of load data on it and easy access to store bought ammo too. The only reason I'd personally get a 7mm WSM is that I got a H&S Precision M24 stock for a Winchester SA M70. I mistakenly bought it for a good price and it sits in my closet. If I run across a cheap Shadow then maybe I'll have a 7mm WSM. Just my 2 cents worth.

 

[Wild Monkey]

Further investigation leads to the 7mm Rem Mag design. Apparently Speer in the early 1950 period was attempting to get More Case capacity from the Newton came up with the "300 Speer Super Magnum". It is at this moment the Short Neck Magnum appears if only to get more Power Capacity from the original "30 Newton". Somehow Winchester gets a copy of this design and used in on the design for a Belted Win Mag and then Remington used it again with the 7mm Rem Mag. Of course it's hard to say who copied it 1st as some would say the .264 Win Mag made it to production earlier. Apparently someone had the idea this was a Superior Design??? So we have the 300 Speer Super Magnum to thank for these short Necks. Did these guy's all hang around same Cigar Bar or something?

 

[xsn10s]

I was keen on a blaser mag, but finding brass, reamer and dies in Canada was a pain so I just went with a rem mag. Sometimes it's easier to swim with the current lol

As a veteran I get funny about having something I can't get components for. Feels like I don't have ammo and that just ****es me off to no end.

 

[Lefty7mmstw]

1904

The 11.2 X 72 SCHULER was introduced in 1904 and produced until WW2. It utilises the rebated rim design which will fit the bolt of the M88 8mm mauser case.

1913

Newton cartridges
It was loaded with 123 gr (8 g) with a muzzle velocity of 3,103 ft/s (946 m/s), and 2,632 ft⋅lbf (3,569 J) of energy. The . 30 Newton was high-velocity, rimless centerfire cartridge introduced in 1913. It was based on a German caliber of the period, the 11.2x72 Schuler.
1962

The 7mm Remington Magnum rifle cartridge was introduced as a commercially available round in 1962,[2] along with the new Remington Model 700 bolt-action rifle. It is a member of the belted magnum family that is directly derived from the venerable .375 H&H Magnum.

58 Years later! So yea, next year will be another 58 Years! 116 Years later and we are still using the Belted Cartridge and we don't even need it anymore. I know I'm thick, but hey.

Edit;
I stumbled on a Conversation regarding Newton Cases the Speer company and it's lawsuit 1948-1950 from Weatherby for an order of over 250 thousand cases. Apparently they were using a new unproven "impact extrusion" process to make the cases. Invariably Since we now know Speer was making Newton Cases as late as 1950! and this could have attributed to the Extinction of Newton Cartridges. So it would seem the Belted Manufacturing Process was flawless and maybe... the Newton design was somehow Blacklisted due to an inferior unrefined "Extrusion" manufacturing method that ended in a Lawsuit with Weatherby. This might be the Key. It is very likely there was animosity between Speer and several of his Rivals and I think Ackley was using Speer Newton Brass to form Wildcats back in the day. Further details uncover Speer was importing 30 Newton Cases from Germany from a company by the name of DWM without Headstamps. It is at this time Speer was often sizing the 30 Newton up and down and some were used for more modern 7mm-30 Newton applications. Off topic, but historically significant.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.30_Newton

sorry, but the newton were not belted, but rimless

https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/topics/3890042/newton-cartridges

I'd think about building a Newton or two but I already have my bases covered pretty well...

As far as belts, it simply doesn't matter to me... I've seen a bit of case life loss at times with the generous case dimensions that can come with a belted cartridge, but the things work well enough and are accurate enough... I've had far more issues with my current 7rum (standard body, tight neck) than I ever will with function with a belted.

 

[Wild Monkey]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.30_Newton

sorry, but the newton were not belted, but rimless

https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/topics/3890042/newton-cartridges

I'd think about building a Newton or two but I already have my bases covered pretty well...

As far as belts, it simply doesn't matter to me... I've seen a bit of case life loss at times with the generous case dimensions that can come with a belted cartridge, but the things work well enough and are accurate enough... I've had far more issues with my current 7rum (standard body, tight neck) than I ever will with function with a belted.

Okay, uh, the entire point of that drivel was the Schuler showed the world a Case without a Belt and the forthcoming Newton also did not have a Belt. Yet US manufacturers chose to ignore this and keep producing Cases with the Belt. Then I showed Speer was selling Cases in Newton form circa 1950, yet in 1958 they started introducing Magnums,,,... wait for it, still with the Belt. But hey, I love me some 7 Rem Mag. All Hail the 7mm Remington Magnum because pre-existing Belt Manufacturing Assembling Line's gave it to us. ??

 

[Lefty7mmstw]

Okay, uh, the entire point of that drivel was the Schuler showed the world a Case without a Belt and the forthcoming Newton also did not have a Belt. Yet US manufacturers chose to ignore this and keep producing Cases with the Belt. Then I showed Speer was selling Cases in Newton form circa 1950, yet in 1958 they started introducing Magnums,,,... wait for it, still with the Belt. But hey, I love me some 7 Rem Mag. All Hail the 7mm Remington Magnum because pre-existing Belt Manufacturing Assembling Line's gave it to us. ??

Not much different than high brass shotshells... People were equating big, heavy case heads with power... Now it's the "magnum" designation or "short mag." designation that gets everyone's undies in a bind. Not to mention that when the 7rem was introduced it was rather hard to procure powder slower than h4831, so in most cases a belted mag. in a certain caliber/ cartridge was more than enough. You already had trouble getting to 100% case fill with the day's powders. You also had trouble with bore life in many of the smaller bores (264 win anyone) so getting bigger was really a moot point.

 

[brian11]

Just know how to properly size your case.

Can you expand upon that? Is there anything special to know or do regarding sizing belted cases?

 

[Creedmoor shooter]

Can you expand upon that? Is there anything special to know or do regarding sizing belted cases?

I really dont want to get into it in this thread. It generally turns into a crap show. PM sent