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Dangerous Game Rifle Recommendations?

There were so many contradictory requirements for your stopping rifle I doubt any suggestion would satisfy you. Big is not always best. If it was a 50 cal machine gun mounted on a Humvee with a tank as a back up would probably work. I have also noticed that many hunters who can afford dangerous game hunts are older. I wonder if any of them have considered the risk of detached retina from shooting these heavy kicking guns? If you are hunting in Africa you will have a back up PH. If you want 100% guarantee stay at home and watch hunting programs on TV. Pick a gun you can shoot well and don't worry about the rest. Even if the game gets through and kills you, so what. The world will not miss one older, over weight hunter, and your wife will love the big life insurance payout and her new younger play mate!

If you had read the thread you would understand that the OP is looking for a defensive weapon to have with him while fishing and camping alone in big bear country. I think it is an interesting thread with lots of options thrown out on the table for discussion.
 
Sorry - I am not ready to "stay home and watch hunting programs on TV"! I enjoy experiencing the outdoors but there are some hazards associated with it. I think it's responsible to try to prepare for these hazards. I will continue to carry bear spray and if possible this will be my first line of defense but I prefer to have a plan B. I owe it to my kids need to do what I can do to home at the end of the day.
 
There were so many contradictory requirements for your stopping rifle I doubt any suggestion would satisfy you. Big is not always best. If it was a 50 cal machine gun mounted on a Humvee with a tank as a back up would probably work. I have also noticed that many hunters who can afford dangerous game hunts are older. I wonder if any of them have considered the risk of detached retina from shooting these heavy kicking guns? If you are hunting in Africa you will have a back up PH. If you want 100% guarantee stay at home and watch hunting programs on TV. Pick a gun you can shoot well and don't worry about the rest. Even if the game gets through and kills you, so what. The world will not miss one older, over weight hunter, and your wife will love the big life insurance payout and her new younger play mate!
You got my vote and maybe a good pair of running sneakers.lightbulb
 
If you had read the thread you would understand that the OP is looking for a defensive weapon to have with him while fishing and camping alone in big bear country. I think it is an interesting thread with lots of options thrown out on the table for discussion.

I missed that too.

If I wasn't actually hunting them and was wanting something strictly for self defense, I would carry a short barrel long magazine 12 gauge shotgun loaded with 3 inch magnums and some shot around BB size. I think lots of heavy shot to the head would ruin his appetite.
 
BB shot isn't stopping a big bear. It might turn him around but if not it'll just **** him off. With a shotgun I'd want a 400-500 grain copper solid. That might actually deliver a lethal blow to vitals.

The best bear killer is a 416 400 grain 2400 ft/sec barnes TSX, Northfork soft, Swift A-frame or similar from a Ruger guide gun or similar. One shot center of chest and he's likely done.
 
When he is 25 yards away and moving 40 MPH, I'll take 650 gr of BB's over a slug. If he is going to stop and give me a chest shot, I'll ask him to wait a moment while I get my rifle. Perhaps I could ask him to stand still for a second shot if the excitement causes me to miss the first one. If he won't wait I'll just have to depend on my BB's to the head.

Or I could just carry a short barreled .22 revolver and if I come face to face with a big bear I can shoot myself in the head.
 
When he is 25 yards away and moving 40 MPH, I'll take 650 gr of BB's over a slug. If he is going to stop and give me a chest shot, I'll ask him to wait a moment while I get my rifle. Perhaps I could ask him to stand still for a second shot if the excitement causes me to miss the first one. If he won't wait I'll just have to depend on my BB's to the head.

Or I could just carry a short barreled .22 revolver and if I come face to face with a big bear I can shoot myself in the head.

I wonder how many posting on this thread have really seen a grizzly up close? they are a very impressive animal. Only animal in North America I am really afraid of. Statistics show bear spray is the most effective deterrent. Of course I feel really silly holding a can of bear spray while looking at a grizzly up close and personal. My advice is you most certainly don't want to pizz that guy off with a load of bb's. I have watched the shoulder muscles in a griz's back working while he dug ground squirrels and rolled boulders out of his way eating moths. A very impressive animal.
 
For perspective....
 

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When he is 25 yards away and moving 40 MPH, I'll take 650 gr of BB's over a slug.

At 25 yds you might as well throw rocks as BBs. You might kill him with BBs at 5ft to the head. Once the BBs spread out it's just ******* him off. At any distance a 500 grain hard slug is vastly more deadly to any large animal than BBs.
 
I wonder how many posting on this thread have really seen a grizzly up close? they are a very impressive animal. Only animal in North America I am really afraid of. Statistics show bear spray is the most effective deterrent. Of course I feel really silly holding a can of bear spray while looking at a grizzly up close and personal. My advice is you most certainly don't want to pizz that guy off with a load of bb's. I have watched the shoulder muscles in a griz's back working while he dug ground squirrels and rolled boulders out of his way eating moths. A very impressive animal.


I had planed a brown Bear hunt to Alaska and decided to do as much research as possible on the "Best Brown Bear cartridge". There were many opinions and lots of choices. The consensus
was that for a hunting rifle a 375 H&H was minimum for one shot kills but the larger 416 and
458s were better for stopping them faster.

I saw videos of the big bears taking 3 to 5 shots from the smaller bore rifles before they actually gave it up. the guides that have actually takes many bears are probably the best source for what is best, but there opinions varied also.

The decision that I came to, was to build a 416 that would push a 400 grain bullet 26 to 2700 ft/sec
And be capable of 4 or 500 yard shots. After completion I had no doubts that this rifle would do the job, so the next thing to decide on was what kind of backup weapon I would carry for the up close and unscheduled visits.

I chose a 454 with 300 grain bullets because Carrying two rifles just did not make sense on a hunt.
But the third choice was to carry a back up rifle if something got messed up in flight or an accident.
and I decided that a big bore leaver gun without a scope would be very dependable and would offer fast follow up shots in an emergency. also If I wanted to go fishing it would be handy and offer lots of security if I encountered a bear that did not want to share his fishing spot. My choice at the time was a 444 Marlin. Know I would look at the 450 marlin because of the extra power.

There are many choices for a self defense weapon that Is powerful, dependable and has many fast follow up shots at close to reasonable 100 yard shots, and the big leaver guns have all these attributes in my opinion.

I don't have much faith in the bear spray (I don't have any experience with it) and think it ought to come with a can of Beer so the bear can wash the taste out of his mouth before sitting down for the meal you provided him. Ha Ha.

Go Big bore or Go Home

Just an opinion and each person has to decide for himself.

J E CUSTOM
 
JE

I like all your choices!!

A 416 as described is about as good as it gets. I think many guides are moving up to 416 loaded with something like 400 Swift A frame. A Lott or bigger might kill a little better but past a 416 shot placement becomes a much bigger factor than fire power. And the 416 is better if a long shot is needed perhaps on a wounded bear.
 
Never hunted grizzly bears.

But when getting ready for Africa I shot 80 rounds of .458 Win mag. I found it unpleasant to shoot and bought a .375 H&H Sako in a fiberglass stock. Shooting no longer hurt! Fired another 80 round before the trip with the new rifle.

I took a 2000 pound Cape Buffalo and a 400 pound lioness with the .375 on that trip. On both hunts I was covered by two PHs carrying 416 Rigby Magnums. In my opinion, your job is to be able to put the first (and any necessary followup rounds) in the vital area of the animal you are hunting. Leave the guide or PH to worry about close range charge stopping shots.

On my buffalo hunt an iron sighted rifle would have been a limiting factor as my first shot was at 125 yards. 40 - 45 buffalo with lots of cows with calfs are hard to sneak up on.

Good luck

Jerry
 
I had planed a brown Bear hunt to Alaska and decided to do as much research as possible on the "Best Brown Bear cartridge". There were many opinions and lots of choices. The consensus
was that for a hunting rifle a 375 H&H was minimum for one shot kills but the larger 416 and
458s were better for stopping them faster.

I saw videos of the big bears taking 3 to 5 shots from the smaller bore rifles before they actually gave it up. the guides that have actually takes many bears are probably the best source for what is best, but there opinions varied also.

The decision that I came to, was to build a 416 that would push a 400 grain bullet 26 to 2700 ft/sec
And be capable of 4 or 500 yard shots. After completion I had no doubts that this rifle would do the job, so the next thing to decide on was what kind of backup weapon I would carry for the up close and unscheduled visits.

I chose a 454 with 300 grain bullets because Carrying two rifles just did not make sense on a hunt.
But the third choice was to carry a back up rifle if something got messed up in flight or an accident.
and I decided that a big bore leaver gun without a scope would be very dependable and would offer fast follow up shots in an emergency. also If I wanted to go fishing it would be handy and offer lots of security if I encountered a bear that did not want to share his fishing spot. My choice at the time was a 444 Marlin. Know I would look at the 450 marlin because of the extra power.

There are many choices for a self defense weapon that Is powerful, dependable and has many fast follow up shots at close to reasonable 100 yard shots, and the big leaver guns have all these attributes in my opinion.

I don't have much faith in the bear spray (I don't have any experience with it) and think it ought to come with a can of Beer so the bear can wash the taste out of his mouth before sitting down for the meal you provided him. Ha Ha.

Go Big bore or Go Home

Just an opinion and each person has to decide for himself.

J E CUSTOM

hunting brown bears is one side of the coin, but a close encounter is the otherside. I had one about three hundred yards south of the Montana border on the Beartooth. He was going thru the silver grey color phase, and I literally thought he was a big boulder till he stood up and turned towards me. I put him in the mid 600lb. area, and maybe seven feet tall. The bear was about eighty yards out when he stood up, and then took about a dozen steps towards me. Now he's closer to fifty yards. For some odd reason he stopped cold, and then returned to his original position. Needless to say, I got the hell out of there (four wheel drive low range ain't exactly fast). A week later that bear killed a hiker who walked right up to him. They have zero sense of humor, and they hate squatters.

Those big bears up there are magnificent creatures. Will make hamburger out of you in thirty seconds flat. I'm not sure there's a perfect round. I think something like a beltless .458 American might be perfect in either a semiauto or a lever gun. The .450 is as close to that as we can get today, and wish it didn't have the belt to worry about.
I (personally) don't trust myself with operating a bolt while wetting my pants. Four or five shoots in a big hurry for me puts the .444 at the top of the list. Three super hard hits in chest brings the .450 to the top. Of course if I had about fifty grand to spend, I buy something like an Evans double in .450 #2 and a 400 grain bullet. That a very serious dangerous game rifle!
gary
 
Sorry - I am not ready to "stay home and watch hunting programs on TV"! I enjoy experiencing the outdoors but there are some hazards associated with it. I think it's responsible to try to prepare for these hazards. I will continue to carry bear spray and if possible this will be my first line of defense but I prefer to have a plan B. I owe it to my kids need to do what I can do to home at the end of the day.


OK, I was a bit flippant pent on my first response, but considering that the question was asked in good faith let me reply likewise.

There is no perfect stopping rifle. Big is better to a point, but that point is reached when the rifle gets too big and heavy, kicks too much or is not suitable for the game being hunted. Double rifles may be ideal in Africa for the PH backing up clients shooting elephants, rhinos, hippos and cape buffalo, but does a US client really need this powerful gun? Traditionally stopping rifles in Africa have been heavy double rifles, but double rifles have not been as popular in the US. Just as well, they are expensive, not that accurate and so specialized you are not going to be able to use them for multiple uses. As for the cost of ammo, that is as painful as the recoil! Since, you have indicated, your stopping rifle is plan B, I think you can dismiss the African heavy thumpers.

So what are we talking about? We are talking about something that can be use effective against the big bears of the western states, Canada and Alaska. Moose, possibly Buffalo, and mountain lion. I have not included black bear here since their response to humans is more akin to a pray species than an aggressive predator. (If you want to do some follow up research you might want to contact the Bear Research Center, Ely MN)

What I did like about your thread was your willingness to use pepper spray as a fist line of defense. Pepper spray has proven to be effective, when use correctly, in encounters with aggressive bears. I suggest that you purchase two Counter Assault Bear Deterrent containers, one to carry, and the smaller, 8.1 ounces, to train with. I am seeing more guides carrying this product which gives me faith in the product and its effectiveness. You can also see videos on the internet of the spray being used. You will not be waisting your money by actually doing a test spraying. If you are really faced with a life and death situation, it is no time to be fiddling with the safety tab, or wondering which direction the spray comes out. Follow the label watch the videos.

I have seen hunters in Montana with 375 H&H rifles and I have taken mine out just for the fun of hunting with it. The problem is, they are dam heavy and when you are hunting on horse back and on foot these guns are a bit of a pain to deal with. The Winchester Model 70 and the Remington 700 can be had in rifles of about eight and a half to nine pounds with scope which is about the same as a 7mm mag, or 300 Win mag. So why not carry the latter to take advantage of longer shot opportunities? The last encounter I had with a grizzly I was carrying a Tikka T3 light in 308 and I watched him come up from below to about fifty yards at which point I stood up and made enough noise to let him know I was there. I felt no concern that I did not have a larger rifle, to the contrary, I was in awe of these magnificent animals.

I have been hunting in Montana since 1958 and have carried all sorts of rifles from the Winchester 32-20 up to 458 mag. Most of the time I used my deer rifle which is a 30-06 Remington 7600 with a Williams aperture sight. It is light, fast and feels like my Remington 870 which I use for trap, skeet and sporting clays. I use these guns so often I am confident in my ability to use them effectively.

In the end, you will have to make the decision which rifle you want to use. If you decide to use a thumper I would suggest that you handload your own ammo and do almost all your practice shooting using light bullets to reduce recoil. I have been using Accurate 5744 with good results because it seems to be less position sensitive. On the 375 H&H I like neck resizing for practice rounds to mediate case separation just above the belt caused by stretching. I don't know if The Ruger Guide gun has the same problem since I have never used or loaded for one of these guns. I have experienced poor magazine design which causes feed problems in Winchester Model 70 and Remington 700 in 375 H&H. I have never had a problem with control round feed actions offered by Mauser, Interarms Mark 10, Ruger 77, and CZ 550 Safari Classic.

Once you get your gun fairly well sighted in get off the bench and shoot using positions you are likely to use while hunting. Double rifles have to be regulated so both barrels shoot to the same point of aim. You will not have regulation problems with a bolt gun, but light guns with massive recoil are very hard to shoot well, because the gun is moving from recoil before the bullet leaves the barrel. So don't expect a rifle sighted in using a lead sled to shoot to the same point of aim offhand or sitting. Purchase a low power scope fixed or variable 1 x 4 with a small ocular tube which will not interfere with bolt operation. Make sure you have a long eye relief...or don't and learn the hard way. (Both of my 375 and 458 have peep sights only)

Check Utube for videos of completive shooters shooting across the course. Pay particular attention to how they work the bolt. Learn how to work the bold fast and efficiently in all positions. Keep your gun up when you are working the bolt, don't lower the gun. Shoot, and while still keeping your eye on the game, work the bolt and shoot again if the game is still standing.

A few additional thoughts on hunting. Every year Montana has a few bear incidences, mostly with archers. There is some excellent studies on bear attacks you can get from the Bear Study Center. I suggest you get a copy. What you are looking for are descriptions of places, situations and reasons people get into problems with bears.

Being with a good guide may help keep you out of trouble with bears. If the guide is close to you and either has a gun or pepper spray your chances of getting into trouble is greatly reduced.
You want a guide who will set his pace consistent with yours. Let me repeat that: You don't want your guide scaring off game one hundred yards ahead of you and if you get into problems, too far away to help.

Which guns to I recommend: 375H&H Plenty of power, recoil you can handle, a cartridge of shape and length which feeds flawlessly in control round actions, but most of the time I just use my Remington 7600 in 30-06. Have no fear.

Hope this helps.
 
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