Dangerous Game Rifle Recommendations?

[Trickymissfit]

if you go to Africa, and take a Winchester or MK. V in .458 mag, rest assured the guy standing behind you will have a .477 double. There's a good reason if one seriously thinks, about it. No bolt, and both rounds are already in battery. In a panic it's actually easy to short bolt a round. Plus there is another well known issue.

If your hunting the shot distance is another matter. But still normally under two hundred yards. A confrontation with a big male grizzly often starts fifty to sixty feet. You can't out run him, so forget that idea. You shoot him with a .458, and the round literally blows right thru him. Might leave 2500lb. of energy in the bear, but so will the .450 Marlin. And if you don't turn him, he'll probably shake your hand while you cycle that bolt. Actually I think I can put five rounds in a four inch circle at seventy five feet easier and quicker with the .444/300grain combo than I can put three in there from the .450 Marlin. I really like the .450/400grain combo at 1900fps, but I still have more work to do on it. Plus I'm thinking about reducing the load to about 1825fps. Power wise the 400 grain bullets ends up being similar to the 350 grain bullet, but I'm seeking mass and an even heavier bullet construction.
gary

 

[Varberger757]

I think this "issue" is quite easily to solve. If you don't go for one of the .375 alternatives take a closer look at the famous and well proven 9,3 x 62. In Mauser actions one of the most widely used cartridges on most continents, and especially in Africa (Namibia/RSA) and by good reason. Very accurate, quite easily manageable recoil and very good terminal effect. Readily loaded cartridges from all over the world and top brass from manufacturers like Norma, RWS and Lapua!
If you would go for doubles, so never ever forget about the rimmed sister of the 9,3 x 62, the 9,3 x74 R! All the same with her as with her brother, and she won't let you down!

 

[lynxpilot]

If it's just for anti-charging (and not your regular hunter), why not one of these:

 

[rcoody]

Again, thank you all for your replies.

I would absolutely love a custom, big bore double if someone made one in stainless, around 7lbs, with a muzzle break and under $10k. In coastal Alaska I have seen full stainless guns develop surface rust in one day. This is a rifle to sling over the shoulder while fishing or take along on while packing meat or keep in camp to deal with problem bears, moose...

Based on you inputs I have pretty much shifted my focus from .375s to .416+s but I keep coming back to the "single well placed shot". As far as a bear or moose charging this most likely the head or spine. So why not a big .30 with a solid bullet? In case that first shot doesn't do it why not a semi-auto. There are full stainless AR10s in 300 WinMag, 338 Win...

please no AR hunting guns. They are just so ugly.

Take the big lever action if not the double rifle

or even a stainless pump shotgun

but no AR's

truth is for grizzlies statistics say bear spray is better than a gun. that is unless he is wounded. Then all bets are off

I have been there watching a running grizzly get closer and closer while holding a can of bear spray in my hands. I handed it to the fellow beside me and pulled out my .45. Felt pretty silly with that bear spray in my hands. Luckily bear turned off and everyone walked away with a story.

 

[One Hole]

I hear some bears actually prefer pepper spray on their victims - LOL. I always carry bear spray in bear country but am concerned with some of the reports on reliability, temp sensitivity, windy conditions...

I do have a 10.5" .500 S&W but I think the probability of me getting it un-holstered and delivering a shot to the central nervous system of charging bear are pretty small. I am probably better off with my 6" .44 mag. I'll take the .500 for a measured shot with a rest for hunting but for it is not quick/fast in a stand-off situation.

Not saying I would choose one for bear defense but AR10s are available in full stainless, with short barrels, reasonable weight and 10+ shot mags.. They can be quick pointing with the right stocks and are made for reliability. There are probably worse choices out there.

A lot of folks recommend the big bore lever guns. I have very limited experience with these but my biggest concerns are the limited energy and they have a lot of moving parts. With practice I am not sure they are any quicker on the 2nd and 3rd shots than a bolt gun but they do hold more rounds.

Another priority for this gun should be ease of use. It should be simple enough to operate that anyone in camp can pick it up and be effective with it.

More thoughts?

 

[Barrelnut]

I hear some bears actually prefer pepper spray on their victims - LOL. I always carry bear spray in bear country but am concerned with some of the reports on reliability, temp sensitivity, windy conditions...

I do have a 10.5" .500 S&W but I think the probability of me getting it un-holstered and delivering a shot to the central nervous system of charging bear are pretty small. I am probably better off with my 6" .44 mag. I'll take the .500 for a measured shot with a rest for hunting but for it is not quick/fast in a stand-off situation.

Not saying I would choose one for bear defense but AR10s are available in full stainless, with short barrels, reasonable weight and 10+ shot mags.. They can be quick pointing with the right stocks and are made for reliability. There are probably worse choices out there.

A lot of folks recommend the big bore lever guns. I have very limited experience with these but my biggest concerns are the limited energy and they have a lot of moving parts. With practice I am not sure they are any quicker on the 2nd and 3rd shots than a bolt gun but they do hold more rounds.

Another priority for this gun should be ease of use. It should be simple enough to operate that anyone in camp can pick it up and be effective with it.

More thoughts?

I think you just answered a lot of your questions. Bottom line is use what you handle best and have confidence in and will always have with you. And remember.. ALWAYS KEEP ONE IN THE PIPE!

 

[Mauser34]

What about an AR in 50 Beowulf? Say what you want about the AR platform but I never had one jam up in combat and the military uses the 50 Beowulf to stop cars. Another thought is a Benelli M4. It's another firearm that's is designed for military and law enforcement use so you know it will cycle in rough conditions.

 

[Trickymissfit]

What about an AR in 50 Beowulf? Say what you want about the AR platform but I never had one jam up in combat and the military uses the 50 Beowulf to stop cars. Another thought is a Benelli M4. It's another firearm that's is designed for military and law enforcement use so you know it will cycle in rough conditions.

* how far does that car roll after being hit? A typical bear attack starts at fifty feet, and can come from any direction (often from right behind you). That big fat bear can move along at 30mph. Has four inch long claws that will rip your head off in one swipe. That bear may go a hundred feet after being hit with a .505 Gibbs. Then he may drop instantly. Want to take the chance?

* Another small issue here is the case design. It's well known that serious dangerous game cartridges are almost always rimmed. Why? Positive extraction is one of them. Nothing is allowed to fail, as the results are ugly. You can have a round with 10K ft.lb. of energy, but if it simply blows right thru the animal your lucky to give him 3300ft.lb. of energy at fifty feet. On the other hand if you hit him with a round that has 2500ft.lb. of energy, but only goes in eight inches. The animal gets it all. That 12 gauge lion slug is starting to look better all the time!

I used to know a gunsmith that worked on nothing but big bore doubles. A trip over to his place would literally show you a million dollars worth of doubles right out of Europe. Folks would send him rifles to tune up and INSPECT prior to trips to Africa. His care and love for them was amazing, and trust me this guy was one of the best gunsmiths in North America. As beautiful as the rifles were (and a few shotguns), one could easily see they were a serious design. Under all that gold inlay and engraving was some of the finest machine work I've ever seen. I asked him about those rounds that looked like cigars, and he went into great detail about why this was done and that was done. The sights were a work of art, but you also noticed your eye picked them up instantly! The stocks were fit to each individual. With all this in mind, he had a love affair with lever action rifles. Trust me he had several that were as nice as the doubles. He built a couple bolt guns for me as a favor. (I used to do a lot of machine work for him) I asked him once why he rarely shot one or even worked on them. He showed me a Griffen Howe in .416 Rigby, and said it was about as big a bolt gun you could have and still be reliable. Why? Recoil and it's after effects were the problem. Then he pointed to the magazine box, and said it was the issue with big bore high recoil fire arms. The crimp won't always hold, and the bullet will change it's seating depth causing a major compressed charge. More than one 45 caliber bullet has blown up over this alone (yes even with solids).
gary

 

[Mauser34]

* how far does that car roll after being hit? A typical bear attack starts at fifty feet, and can come from any direction (often from right behind you). That big fat bear can move along at 30mph. Has four inch long claws that will rip your head off in one swipe. That bear may go a hundred feet after being hit with a .505 Gibbs. Then he may drop instantly. Want to take the chance?

Who cares how far the bear roles as long as its dead? Id rather have more then 2 rounds in this situation. I've seen guys fire a whole mag at something charging and only hit it 5 times with 30 rounds. Point is I'd rather have 30 rounds and only need 2 then have 2 rounds and need 30. And I'd rather have that big fat bear coming at me then a car filled with 500lbs of HME.

 

[J E Custom]

Again, thank you all for your replies.

I would absolutely love a custom, big bore double if someone made one in stainless, around 7lbs, with a muzzle break and under $10k. In coastal Alaska I have seen full stainless guns develop surface rust in one day. This is a rifle to sling over the shoulder while fishing or take along on while packing meat or keep in camp to deal with problem bears, moose...

Based on you inputs I have pretty much shifted my focus from .375s to .416+s but I keep coming back to the "single well placed shot". As far as a bear or moose charging this most likely the head or spine. So why not a big .30 with a solid bullet? In case that first shot doesn't do it why not a semi-auto. There are full stainless AR10s in 300 WinMag, 338 Win...

I am a 416 guy and know what they will do. But considering the conditions you posted, I would still want a leaver action (Simple to use and very dependable) in one of the big bores or a 12 gauge pump shotgun in at least 3" mag with slugs. the 3'' will produce about 3000 ft/lbs of energy, and the 450 marlin produces 3700 ft/lbs.

I have a 450 bushmaster upper on a AR 15 Lower and it is a bear for hogs but the best it can do is 27 to 2800 ft/lbs and I don't think that in a bad situation if I had a malfunction, that I could clear it fast enough. so I would not put it up against a big brown.

Interesting post though.

J E CUSTOM

 

[mattri]

470 / 475 Turnbull Rifles - Turnbull Manufacturing Company

 

[engineer40]

I am a 416 guy and know what they will do. But considering the conditions you posted, I would still want a leaver action (Simple to use and very dependable) in one of the big bores or a 12 gauge pump shotgun in at least 3" mag with slugs. the 3'' will produce about 3000 ft/lbs of energy, and the 450 marlin produces 3700 ft/lbs.

I have a 450 bushmaster upper on a AR 15 Lower and it is a bear for hogs but the best it can do is 27 to 2800 ft/lbs and I don't think that in a bad situation if I had a malfunction, that I could clear it fast enough. so I would not put it up against a big brown.

Interesting post though.

J E CUSTOM

That 45 Raptor can produce 3,700ft lbs of energy as well.

My whitetail hunting camp is about 16 guys deep. We all use shotguns because that is the area of Michigan we hunt. The 870 pump shotgun is by far the most common gun we use. Over the years I have seen enough of them jam, that I don't know if I'd trust one for a 2nd shot anymore than I would trust an AR platform for the 2nd shot.

And I would just assume that many of those fishing guides in Alaska are trusting the 870 to perform when needed.

I agree, it is an interesting post though.

While I've been following this thread, I just keep asking myself "Well what is the guy next to me carrying?"

 

[One Hole]

If I went with a 12 gauge shotgun would you guys recommend shooting 2 3/4, 3 or 3 1/2 in slugs? Assuming my mag. will hold one more 2 3/4 shell than it does 3 or 3 1/2 shells.

I grew on 870s but would be hard pressed not to choose a Benellis SBE or M2. Pretty much everything on it is aluminum, stainless, chrome or plastic and will never rust. They are pretty lightweight comparatively too. I have never had one of their inertial recoil semis fail.

Thoughts?

 

[mattri]

Law Enforcement | O.F. Mossberg & Sons