Choices- Browning Hell's Canyon Speed vs. Long Range

[300 Driver]

Long Range in 300 WM would be the only choice to me. Twist rate is appropriate and availability of components is unquestionable with the 300WM.

 

[FEENIX]

The twists Browning offers are what concern me...
7RM- 9.5
28 Nosler- 9
300WM- 10 (no problem there)
My Sako 300WSM is only an 11 twist
So I am trying to determine what would be an optimal choice given the specs they offer? I mainly hunt between 8000-9000 feet in elevation.

Altitude is your friend when it comes to SG. You can get away with bullet stabilization issues at your altitude, go to http://www.bergerbullets.com/twist-rate-calculator/ and plug in your numbers and you'll see what I mean.

I have a 1:10" in my 300 WSM and I am pushing the 215 Berger at 2750 FPS. At my altitude of 3300, SG = 1.62, if I have a 1:11" SG = 1.34 (marginal).

At your altitude of 8-9K with the same velocity of 2750 FPS out of your rifle, SG = 1.59 and 1.66 respectively.

My SAKO M995 in .300 WM is also 1:11"; it harvested a MT bull elk at 931 yards with 190 Berger VLD in 2013.

 

[FEENIX]

I agree with you sir on the custom or semi-custom options. But the rifles I listed were because I am working out a replacement from Browning and will be choosing from these 2 models. So I am asking what you think would be an optimal choice in this platform given the specs they offer.

In that case, IIWY, I'd go with the 28 Nosler.

 

[Ranger260]

Do you feel that 28 Nosler is here to stay...or end up like many of the WSM and SAUM calibers that no longer seem to have support and can be difficult to find brass for?

 

[MudRunner2005]

I agree with you sir on the custom or semi-custom options. But the rifles I listed were because I am working out a replacement from Browning and will be choosing from these 2 models. So I am asking what you think would be an optimal choice in this platform given the specs they offer.

If you are wanting to shoot the 7mm heavies, then it seems the only caliber option is the .28 Nosler, because it's the only one that comes with a 1:9 twist. As for which rifle, it all comes down to personal preference. If it were my choice, personally, I like the Hell's Canyon Long Range better. That extra pound of barrel weight and heavier contour will be better for long range hunting/shooting. As for hunting, they're only a pound difference in weight if you rig them up the same, and I've carried some heavy guns some long distances. Sure it's heavier, but you really won't notice that 1 pound in my opinion. But that's once again, just personal opinion.

 

[MudRunner2005]

A 9.5 twist is so stupid. I can barely stabilize 162s in my 7mm mag according to the 4dof. All 7mms need to come with a 8 twist. 30 cal is the only one that's got a decent twist.

The factory 6.5's are now getting 8-twist barrels, so they're starting to VERY SLOWLY catch on. I'd really like to see a factory 5R Milspec 7mm caliber with common-length barrel (20-24" for short-action cartridges, and 26" for long actions and magnums) with a 1:8 twist barrel.

 

[Creedmoor shooter]

The factory 6.5's are now getting 8-twist barrels, so they're starting to VERY SLOWLY catch on. I'd really like to see a factory 5R Milspec 7mm caliber with common-length barrel (20-24" for short-action cartridges, and 26" for long actions and magnums) with a 1:8 twist barrel.

I see most 6mm Creedmoors are coming in a 1:7.7 twist. So they are coming around very slowly. The 243s are still a 9-9.5 twist. Which will crucify the 243 if they don't change that as well. They need to make 7mms with a twist that can shoot bigger than 162-168 class bullets. The 7mms don't get half the credit they deserve. I'm glad they're finally coming around and making some heavy weight bullets for them now. Now we just need rifles built to handle them.

 

[FEENIX]

If you are wanting to shoot the 7mm heavies, then it seems the only caliber option is the .28 Nosler, because it's the only one that comes with a 1:9 twist.

At the OP's altitude of 8-9K, the twist rate is not the issue as he will be able to stabilize the 195 with the 7MM RM with a 1:9.5" but the .28 Nosler will give that extra powder capacity to take advantage of what the 195 BC has to offer.

 

[WildRose]

I'm looking to hear your thoughts about a choice I need to make. I have an opportunity to choose between a Browning X-Bolt Hell's Canyon Speed or Hell's Canyon Long Range (I know...a real 1st World problem...LOL). I'm most interested in 7mm RM, 300WM and 28 Nosler [this one I need to research more], have the capability to handload ammunition and do not consider myself recoil shy. I would like to use this rifle to hunt elk and mule deer, primarily in the Uinta and Wasatch Mountains of Utah, but I may find myself hunting anywhere in the West. This will serve strictly as a hunting rifle since I have other rifles to fill the target/tactical niche. My current hunting rifle is a Sako 75 Finnlight in 300WSM (and find it manageable without a brake), but I'm a "gun guy" and tend to dabble in a variety of rifles.

My 1st thought was to go for the Speed in 7RM, as I find 7RM a pleasure to shoot and tend to lean towards lighter rifles. I have handled the Speed and liked it, but haven't handled the Long Range. But I find myself thinking of slinging large-for-caliber bullets [200-215 grain .30s or 175-180 grain .284s] and the Long Range starts to become more attractive. Is there a performance advantage to selecting the heavier contour barrel and extra weight of the Long Range over the Speed? How about stepping up to 300WM or 28 Nosler? Is the "juice worth the squeeze"? I'm looking for the "sweet spot" between caliber, weight and performance in this rifle that will meet my needs. I have a new Burris Veracity 3-15x50mm scope at my disposal for this setup, but may consider a lighter option in Leupold/Zeiss/Swaro for the right price. What would you choose if you had such a choice and why? Thanks for your thoughts.

A few weeks back I sighted in a Hell's Canyon LR for a client in 300wm and was less than impressed with it. I looks cool but I didn't like the trigger at all and it was at best about a 2 MOA gun.

For that kind of money I'd look at the Gen 2 Model 700 Remington in 300wm.

Of the calibers you list the .300wm would definitely be my preference. With the 180-200gr class bullets it's fast and plenty fast out to 600 yards and if you want to push it to a thousand or more the heavies really do the trick.

As bullet tech advances you can also count on the latest, greatest, newest and coolest hitting the market are going to start first with the .30's generally and move on from there because of how it dominated the market in so many different platforms and cartridges with the 7's and 6.5's close behind.

 

[WildRose]

The Ridgeline I posted a link to is a true 1:9... That means you can shoot the Berger 180 Hybrids, and if you're at a really high elevation, the Berger 195 Elite Hunters.

One of my semi-local stores had one in .280 AI and since they know me and that I've bought alot of guns from them, and I always "wheel & deal" with them on prices, they cut it down to brass tax, and offered it to me for $1,600 out the door... But I didn't have the cash at the time, so I had to turn it down. That was a really hard deal to walk away from.

My problem with deals like that is is keep finding myself as unable to say no as a heroin addict.

I then figure out how to pay for everything else. HA!

 

[WildRose]

Do you feel that 28 Nosler is here to stay...or end up like many of the WSM and SAUM calibers that no longer seem to have support and can be difficult to find brass for?

Here to stay I think. Nosler just has too much invested in them to go any other way.

 

[WildRose]

I see most 6mm Creedmoors are coming in a 1:7.7 twist. So they are coming around very slowly. The 243s are still a 9-9.5 twist. Which will crucify the 243 if they don't change that as well. They need to make 7mms with a twist that can shoot bigger than 162-168 class bullets. The 7mms don't get half the credit they deserve. I'm glad they're finally coming around and making some heavy weight bullets for them now. Now we just need rifles built to handle them.

That's always been the problem. The major manufacturers produce rifles to shoot the same ammo they produce and until very recently none of them were producing factory ammo in heavy for caliber, high bc, long range bullets.

They mass produce ammo and rifles for the "average guy" not for the small specialty markets of which we very much are a part.

There just hadn't been much of a market for shooting beyond 300 yards really until about the last decade or so with everyone coming back from Afghanistan and Iraq who learned the skills on the battlefield necessary to do so.

As always then the majors are just a decade or so behind the change.

 

[Ranger260]

At the OP's altitude of 8-9K, the twist rate is not the issue as he will be able to stabilize the 195 with the 7MM RM with a 1:9.5" but the .28 Nosler will give that extra powder capacity to take advantage of what the 195 BC has to offer.

Definitely nice to know that the 195 may be stabilized at this altitude. This really opens up the possibilities with all the 7mm bullets available.

 

[Ranger260]

A few weeks back I sighted in a Hell's Canyon LR for a client in 300wm and was less than impressed with it. I looks cool but I didn't like the trigger at all and it was at best about a 2 MOA gun.

For that kind of money I'd look at the Gen 2 Model 700 Remington in 300wm.

Of the calibers you list the .300wm would definitely be my preference. With the 180-200gr class bullets it's fast and plenty fast out to 600 yards and if you want to push it to a thousand or more the heavies really do the trick.

As bullet tech advances you can also count on the latest, greatest, newest and coolest hitting the market are going to start first with the .30's generally and move on from there because of how it dominated the market in so many different platforms and cartridges with the 7's and 6.5's close behind.

300WM is definitely in the running. I don't believe there is a whole lot of room to seat the larger bullets in my Sako 300 WSM. I'm not in love with the Browning trigger, but it is serviceable. I would likely be looking elsewhere if I were spending that kind of money. But as it stands, I am replacing a rifle through Browning and those rifles are what I'm limiting my choices to.