Caliber size or Velocity and Energy?

[Txcowboy50]

Your caliber is fine. Your bullet choice is questionable.

The 156 gr Bergers shoot less than 1/2 moa out to 300 yds. (my longest range I have) I have loaded143 eldx and they shoot great too. Have not tried Hammers but I hear they are a good hunting round. Any suggestions?

 

[Magnum44270]

Lots have luck with bergers, but i would not trust them on an elk hunt... partition accubond, ablr, swift afram, barnes, hammer

 

[Teri Anne]

Quote: A well placed shot out of your 6.5 PRC will kill an Elk just as dead as a 458 Winchester Magnum, you just won't ruin as much meat


Teri Anne, This is where we disagree. Unless you're shooting a very light for caliber, very fragile bullet in the .458…..the 6.5 PRC will blood shot much more meat and do more tissue damage initially than will the .458!

At ranges of equal distances, with very similar shot placement…..a 130 grain 270 Win. will bloodshot much more meat than will my old .375 H&H. Step up the velocities to that of my . 375 AI, and all bets are off! memtb

Bloodshot meat means the bullet...of any size did not go through the ribs, heart, lungs and maybe out the other side through the ribs. Does anybody care if the ribs are bloodshot? Probably not. Hit a shoulder or back and see how much meat is ruined...by a misplaced shot. Another thing is that if there is bloodshot meat it's not necessarily completely ruined. If you take a hose with cold running water and massage the area where the blood is evident while it's still fresh you can work out most of the blood, and save the meat. You probably won't get all of it out so you may not want to use that section for a steak, but it works perfectly well for burger.

 

[memtb]

Bloodshot meat means the bullet...of any size did not go through the ribs, heart, lungs and maybe out the other side through the ribs. Does anybody care if the ribs are bloodshot? Probably not. Hit a shoulder or back and see how much meat is ruined...by a misplaced shot. Another thing is that if there is bloodshot meat it's not necessarily completely ruined. If you take a hose with cold running water and massage the area where the blood is evident while it's still fresh you can work out most of the blood, and save the meat. You probably won't get all of it out so you may not want to use that section for a steak, but it works perfectly well for burger.

Teri Anne, I can assure you, that a high velocity low caliber round placed "behind" the shoulder, through the ribs will make a significantly larger bloodshot area than will a much slower moving large caliber bullet!

There is absolutely no argument that ribs are not of "prime rib" quality meat. However, should that shot be errant from the high velocity bullet….it doesn't "mysteriously" lose it's tendency/ability to create bloodshot meat! Anyone that has enjoyed hunting for years, especially those hunting in thick brush/timber, knows and has experienced shots that do not hit "picture book" perfect behind the shoulder at a 90 degree angle to the animal with every shot taken. If they can honestly say that they haven't made less than perfect shot placement….they've passed on a lot of shots that would have put meat in the freezer! While not the perfect, desired outcome…..I'd rather lose a bit of meat than lose the entire animal! JMO memtb

 

[Idaho Lefty]

The 156 gr Bergers shoot less than 1/2 moa out to 300 yds. (my longest range I have) I have loaded143 eldx and they shoot great too. Have not tried Hammers but I hear they are a good hunting round. Any suggestions?

Lots have luck with bergers, but i would not trust them on an elk hunt... partition accubond, ablr, swift afram, barnes, hammer

Suggestion to OP,.. USE, the 140 gr. Elite Hunter or, 140 H-VLD Bergers and Launch them at, 3,100+ FPS, which should, still be going OVER,.. 2,000 FPS at, 700 Yds or,.. More. Find an Accuracy Load, tho !
I drove, a 140 gr. Classic Hunter .270 WSM Bullet ( 3,185 FPS ), completely through, BOTH Shoulder blades & Hides and, Making MUSH internally, on an, Idaho Elk, last year. Couple years before that, in Northern Arizona, I shot one with same Rifle, in the "Boiler Room" with, an AccuBond ( 3,145 FPS load ) and he "Trotted around" for, a Minute or Two,.. before,. collapsing. Thought SERIOUSLY about, shooting him,.. AGAIN !
Guess what,.. I don't shoot, AccuBonds anymore, because,.. Bergers,.. ARE,. "Killers" !
Yup, Small sample size but, we have looked at,.. the Wounds,...
To Magnum,.. LOL !! Shoot whichever Bullet that, makes YOU,.. Happy

 

[Idaho Lefty]

My 13 y/o grandson HAS, "Folded up" 2 large Muley's with, 87 gr H-VLD Bergers, going 3,100 FPS, at, 225 and 270 Yards with his .243 Win.
The huge 4 x 5 that, he shot this Year, was over,.. 30" wide and Heavy Horned with, a Big body.
My whole Family has, converted over to, shooting,.. Bergers and ELD-X's, because, THEY,.. "Work"
We have used them in,.. .243's, 6.5 Creed, 6.5 PRC, .270 WSM and 7MM-08's

 

[smokey3]

Actually (apples to oranges) my handloaded 156 Bergers : mv 2920 ft/sec and 2954 ft/lbs @ 500yds 2271 ft/sec and 1787 ft/lbs compared to factory 300wm accubond trophy grade: mv 2950 ft/sec and 3477 ft/lbs @ 500yds 2089 ft/sec and1745 ft/lbs The 6.5 PRC has better ballistics, in this case beyond 475 yds.

Good comparison, however that is a light load for a 180 AB in 300 WM. I shoot the same bullet at 3100 fps with 79.3 grains of H1000 and 26" barrel with absolutely no overpressure signs and 3842 ft/lbs at the muzzle. I use a Magneto Speed. 70 grains IMR 4350 produces slightly lower at 3000 fps.

 

[Teri Anne]

Teri Anne, I can assure you, that a high velocity low caliber round placed "behind" the shoulder, through the ribs will make a significantly larger bloodshot area than will a much slower moving large caliber bullet!

There is absolutely no argument that ribs are not of "prime rib" quality meat. However, should that shot be errant from the high velocity bullet….it doesn't "mysteriously" lose it's tendency/ability to create bloodshot meat! Anyone that has enjoyed hunting for years, especially those hunting in thick brush/timber, knows and has experienced shots that do not hit "picture book" perfect behind the shoulder at a 90 degree angle to the animal with every shot taken. If they can honestly say that they haven't made less than perfect shot placement….they've passed on a lot of shots that would have put meat in the freezer! While not the perfect, desired outcome…..I'd rather lose a bit of meat than lose the entire animal! JMO memtb

I am not quite sure what you are getting at? Bloodshot meat certainly does occur. I never said it didn't. I first went Deer hunting in Alabama in 1968 and have been Deer Hunting every year since. Some of those years were with shotguns using 00 to #4 buckshot. Now if you want to see blood shot meat try deer hunting with buckshot. While your aim may be picture perfect the buckshot flying through the air has a mind of it's own and will impale the deer wherever it wants, and that includes a lot of prime meat. At the time an old retired Marine Corps Gunnery Sergeant and I became friends and hunting buddies. He is the one that showed me how to, shall we say milk the blood out of bloodshot meat, As long a you start with the process before the blood starts to coagulate you can get a lot of the blood out. No it won't be prime steak or a roast but if ground into burger you will never notice the difference. Trust me buckshot produced a lot of deer burger back in those days.

As for the difference between a high speed bullet or a slow speed bullet or BB it's hard to say. I have shot my fair share of deer over the years that while the shots were deadly did cause bruising of some meat. As long as you don't shoot the deer, field dress it, load it into your truck or whatever you are driving and go directly home and start butchering the deer while the blood is fresh you can save a lot of the bbloodshot meat. If however you take go to the bar to celebrate with your buddies the blood will coagulate and then the only thing you can do is to cut as much of it out as you can and add it to the rest of the waste that accumulates when dressing a deer. If you take it in to a butcher to have it processed, they see the blood shot meat they simply

cut it out and throw it away no questions asked. If you question them they will simply say the meat was bloodshot. There are some unscrupulous meat processors out there that will use that excuse to; shall we say, procure, some venison for themselves. That happened to me a couple of years ago. I generally use Nosler Partitions for deer hunting. They for the most part will dissipate their energy in the deer and lodge in the ribs or hide on the other side without leaving an exit wound. I was using my 270 and hand loads, 130 gr Nosler Partitions loaded to around 2900 feet per second. The deer was only around 70 yards away, the bullet didn't slow down much. The bullet did go completely through and leave an exit wound the size of my fist on the other side. Please note that the entrance wound was on the deer's right side, exit wound on the left, right through the ribs. I have attached a picture of he deer. It was shot pretty close to the shop so it was loaded into the bucket of a Bobcat and taken right back to the shop and hung for the picture. The deer, on the hoof as shown here went a few pounds short of 200. After the picture we field dressed it and it then weighed in at 138 pounds. It was a big deer. I took it in to be processed after removing the rack (which is hanging in the shop along with many others) When I came to pick it up there was not enough meat for a deer that size. I asked the processor about it. His comment was that the entire left hind quarter was blood shot. I asked if I could see it and his response was that it had already been carted away. When I asked how a deer with an entrance hole on one side, exit hole on the other through the chest cavity could have an entire hind quarter blood shot? His response was, "You never know what a bullet will do once it enters the deer." I never went back to that processor and let everyone I knew about the incident. I simply believe he saw a big deer, an older blonde chick and figured that I would not know the difference in how much meat was returned. There was no way to prove otherwise so I let it go. He is still processing deer and most likely stealing venison.

 

[Magnum44270]

Suggestion to OP,.. USE, the 140 gr. Elite Hunter or, 140 H-VLD Bergers and Launch them at, 3,100+ FPS, which should, still be going OVER,.. 2,000 FPS at, 700 Yds or,.. More. Find an Accuracy Load, tho !
I drove, a 140 gr. Classic Hunter .270 WSM Bullet ( 3,185 FPS ), completely through, BOTH Shoulder blades & Hides and, Making MUSH internally, on an, Idaho Elk, last year. Couple years before that, in Northern Arizona, I shot one with, same Rifle, in the "Boiler Room" with, an AccuBond ( 3,145 FPS load ) and he "Trotted around" for, a Minute or Two,.. before,. collapsing. Thought SERIOUSLY about, shooting him,.. AGAIN !
Guess what,.. I don't shoot, AccuBonds anymore, because,.. Bergers,.. ARE,. "Killers" !
Yup, Small sample size but, we have looked at,.. the Wounds,...
To Magnum,.. LOL !! Shoot whichever Bullet that, makes YOU,.. Happy

Im all for people shooting what ever they are comfortable with. ..i personally have not been thrilled with how bergers performed for me. 168g in .308 amd 105g in .243... was not impressed and would never shoot again.

ABLR is my go to!

 

[Idaho Lefty]

I have heard of, "Issues" with some of, the .30 Cal, Berger bullets.
Regular, AccuBonds,.. DO Penetrate / shoot, "well" but,.. they just didn't, Expand that well for,.. Me
ABLR's ( If, they shoot accurately, in your Rifle ) do, Expand, MUCH, Better for, sure !
Everybody, needs to, TEST Bullets, in THEIR Rifle to, see what, "Works" for, them.
There ARE, lots of good choices,.. Today !

 

[memtb]

Terri Anne, I guess that we'll continue to see things differently.

We've only had two animals processed…..both were a resounding disappointment!

I've a few days of hunting under my belt, 65 years counting the first few years with adults. My wife has been hunting since around 1970. We're fairly versed on game processing….and removal of blood shot whether by salt water soaking, or actual tissue disposal if needed!

I've hunted exclusively since 1982 with a med-bore rifle and my wife since 1996. Prior to that she hunted exclusively with relatively small bore cartridges (.243 Win, .264 WM, and 270 Win.) and we both have hunted with other folks using similar …… our observations have been that generally speaking high velocity bullets cause more blood shot. On close range shots, something we seldom enjoy anymore, our fairly high velocity medium bores create a lot of bloodshot tissue same as high velocity small bores. At longer distance, with appreciable velocity loss…..blood shot is substantially less!

Obviously….."your mileage may vary"! memtb

 

[Teri Anne]

Im all for people shooting what ever they are comfortable with. ..i personally have not been thrilled with how bergers performed for me. 168g in .308 amd 105g in .243... was not impressed and would never shoot again.

ABLR is my go to!

I have not been able to get any bergers to group for me either. My go to's right now are Nosler, Sierra and some Hornadys.

 

[Maol]

On close range shots, something we seldom enjoy anymore, our fairly high velocity medium bores create a lot of bloodshot tissue same as high velocity small bores. At longer distance, with appreciable velocity loss…..blood shot is substantially less!

The same experience here. ABs were good, ABLRs were the best for me. ELDX close in waste a lot of meat. Never tried the Bergers, probably won't, switching to monos. Gonna give the Hammers and BD2s a try.

 

[pdog shooter]

Didn't read all but "sectional density" has my vote.
Which would I prefer for a running white tail. A shot that may be less than well placed. 30 or 6.5? used both and hands down the 30.