Bull Elk. Berger 195 EOL terminal performance video.

[dallen0427]

One thing for sure, at that quartering angle you shot him at it's a real good thing you were shooting a Partition! You could hear that impact and it was violent. Great job!

I've always done well with partitions. I shoot 205 Berger in my 300 WM down in the lower 48 as I like there long range ballistics, but will stick with the partitions when in Alaska for moose and such. Big brown bears are common in my area and I don't want to wonder if the bullet will perform. I've seen partitions perform on big bears. I don't have the experience or confidence to use a fragmenting bullet for them.

 

[7.62 Gunner]

That would be considered unacceptable performance by most I know especially at that distance!! I've seen quite a few elk takien in those ranges and never saw one shot a second time, something is bad wrong!!

I've seen many Bulls require a second shot to put them down quickly.
Aside from the bull I shot through the lungs last fall, I've had several more hit center lung make serious ground before bedding down.
One was alive an hour after I put a 147 directly through both lungs.

I've also seen some chases with shoulder shots but literally zero got away, and nearly all bedded much sooner than bulls I've seen that were lung shot.
All were with eldx, eldm, and Bergers

Also I'm talking bulls not cows, for anyone who really hunts elk its common knowledge that cows die waaaaaay easier.

 

[180ls1]

Interesting thread. Some animals just dont want to go down. After years of shooting elk with smaller calibers .277 and 6.5 i've finally switched to a 30 cal magnum. Its what my old man uses and it just works better, especially on bulls.

I am a little shocked there was no discussion of neck shots though. Some guys swear by them.

 

[Calvin45]

I've seen many Bulls require a second shot to put them down quickly.
Aside from the bull I shot through the lungs last fall, I've had several more hit center lung make serious ground before bedding down.
One was alive an hour after I put a 147 directly through both lungs.

I've also seen some chases with shoulder shots but literally zero got away, and nearly all bedded much sooner than bulls I've seen that were lung shot.
All were with eldx, eldm, and Bergers

Also I'm talking bulls not cows, for anyone who really hunts elk its common knowledge that cows die waaaaaay easier.

You know I never thought about it much but my experience has been the same with the lowly whitetail deer as well.

I've seen things I wouldn't have believed if not for beholding with my own eyes how much ground a deer has covered, how much blood lost, how much destruction of organs and bones….and still had to give one a finishing shot. In every instance that seemed to defy explanation it was a buck, never seen a well hit doe go very far at all now that I look back.

 

[Phil Rizzo]

The larger animals deserve better than the bare minimum some people brag about using to shoot them. Smaller calibers especially, even though placed correctly they do kill I understand.
I would not call a 195 gr bullet at 3000fps bare minimum, however!

 

[Hoss50]

for anyone who really hunts elk its common knowledge that cows die waaaaaay easier.

That is probably true in most cases, but I watched a cow absorb 4 shots from a 300 weatherby mag at 40-60 yards and keep trying to run. All 4 of those shots were good with a 200gr Speer grand slam that didn't exit. Her lungs and liver were literally liquid in the bottom of the chest cavity that I scooped out with a coke can I cut the top off of.

I know it was all adrenaline, but it was an amazing amount damage and she just didn't want to die.

 

[Huntnful]

Biggest cartridge that you can manage recoil with and practice with enough to actually be skillful is what I'd recommend.

 

[cajun]

Just because you shoot a larger caliber does not mean it will kill any better. It has the potential too. The most important piece of the equation is the bullet and it's terminal performance followed by shot placement. The more tissue damage the quicker it dies. It's just a trade off finding that balance between energy transfer and exit potential. The skin is so elastic it will catch bullets sometimes.

 

[sika64]

Interesting! I have been hunting elk for nearly 40 years and guided for 17 years and have observed the following: 17 bulls that were lost were shot with the "flat shooting" 7mm. Near every bull that went down within 50 to 100 yards was shot with a 30 caliber (+) firearm and a number of those were pass through shots. I've taken 19 elk myself with a .338 Win Mag using 200 grain bullets (never at maximum muzzle velocity). My experience indicates that mass and energy are much more important than velocity. High velocity bullets fragment too quickly to get a pass through. Shoot a 30.06 bullet into a bag of sand and then shoot an arrow into the same bag of sand and observe the difference.

You can't get much more energy then a 195 going 3000 unless you go big 30 cal. You can see the energy when that bullet hit, it rippled the whole body

 

[sika64]

Enter and exit lungs and it's dead. When a hunter can think fast enough after the shot and throw a cow call to ease or slow down the hit bull, it makes the tracking job easier in many cases. Most times, hunters don't think fast enough to follow up with that cow call.

Exactly, take out the lungs and it's a dead animal and it doesn't matter how big. Sometimes you might have to look a little bit, but they aren't going far when they can't breathe

 

[Wyo37]

I observed almost the same scenario....with a 108eldm.

218yds, first round behind the shoulder, the bull just stood there. 2nd round (which impacted in almost the same hole), the bull dropped. He got up and stumbled 30-40yds. 6mm creed peashooter 108gr match bullet. Bull is in my freezer. Pretty nice to watch your impact, and remain on target with an 8lb gun without a muzzle brake. I would've taken the same shot at 5, 6, or 700 yds. Still have a cow tag, we'll see what this weekend brings.

"Energy" is irrelevant....it's Fudd lore.


Que the magnum and hammer boys....

 

[180ls1]

Sometimes I think were also in such a pursuit of trajectory/BC (28nos +195eol is a dream) that we forget about frontal area even if we give up ballistics.

I really wonder how that bull would have responded to a 338win or similar, even with less energy on target.

 

[fishdundee]

In my semi-professional amateur opinion, Berger 180 Hybrids are the best 7mm elk bullet I've ever used. Great expansion, good penetration and most 7mm cartridges can make good use of it.

I have to agree. They have worked very well for me for several years.

 

[Phil Rizzo]

I have to agree. They have worked very well for me for several years.

Equally good results on deer?