Bull Elk. Berger 195 EOL terminal performance video.

[meatyrem]

This is my concern with bergers as well and ive killed a bunch of deer, hogs, 2 red hinds, 2 cow and 1 bull elk.

I've had a 150 pound wt buck take a 215 at 200 yards and not fall at the shot with no pass through. He ran about 30 yards and flopped but the key point is all that energy didn't knock him down at impact. Makes me think those energy numbers don't mean [what we think they do.

I killed a bull last year at 550 yards with an estimated impact velocity of 2550 from a 230. It dropped him in his tracks from a center shoulder shot. To my astonishment he got up several minutes later but was spread legged sorta braced up with head hanging down. He was dead and didn't know it.

I told the guide the second shot will be going 6 inches higher to shock the spine for good. The first shot didn't pass through the second did.

The pic below shows the first shot and second shot placement and the recovered bullet from the first shot which was on the off-side hide. The lungs were jellied and it's mind boggling how he got up after several minutes.

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" Makes me think those energy numbers don't mean [what we think they do."

I happen to agree 100% with this statement

 

[MIBirdhunter]

I just think about all the whitetail deer that I've shot at under 150 yards with a 12 gauge slug and the fist size exit holes and a hole bunch ran a hundred yards or so with no heart... wild animals can take amazing amounts of energy/bullets sometimes.... my elk last fall took 3 280AI shots through the chest broadside before deciding to give up the ghost. Two exit holes... priceless!!

 

[2Rope]

All you need is a Needmor 140 out to a thousand for elk. It has to be true, I read it on this forum and other places on the inter web…
My 20 years of guiding elk hunters in SW Colo don't agree, but what do I know? ( don't tell anyone, but elk can take a lot of killing )

 

[bigngreen]

A heart shot whitetail will cover 3x the distance of an elk, elk don't like hurting and can not move without air, it takes a lot of Os to move that mass.
You can definitely reengage their will to live if you just start shooting, I will not shoot a second round unless I saw a bad hit but tucked behind the shoulder I just pack it up and start walking. I much prefer them wobbling then flopping to just flat dropping cause those are the ones that vanish!!

 

[Huntnful]

I've shot elk with 160 grain .284 bullets at 300+ yards and watched them take one step and hit the dirt dead. No two scenarios are identical with elk. Some Monster bulls drop easier than smaller satellite bulls. I've seen .243 bullets drop elk fast also. 105 grain Berger's have done the job so well, the guys I know using them wouldn't change a thing yet other guys swear a .300 mag is minimum. Predictability in killing big animals is impossible. Some drop fast while others have the will power to make a tracking job nearly impossible. Over years of killing dozens of big game animals, my conclusion is there's no guaranteeing the outcome regardless of what gun you pull the trigger on. Hit exactly where you put the crosshairs and likely you'll have a freezer full of meat. Never a guarantee unfortunately.

I completely agree. There's is no guaranteed reaction from any bullet going any speed on an elk… or even a big deer honestly. But pick a good bullet, and put it in a good spot, and you'll be successful

 

[WYO300RUM]

I completely agree. There's is no guaranteed reaction from any bullet going any speed on an elk… or even a big deer honestly. But pick a good bullet, and put it in a good spot, and you'll be successful

What state did you shoot the bull in ?

 

[Huntnful]

What state did you shoot the bull in ?

This was in New Mexico

 

[Kevinprc]

300 yards. First shot was a perfect double lung. Didn't want to chance him getting into the timber, so I put another in him when I got the first half decent shot angle. Neither bullet exited. First shot had no shrapnel in offside hide at all.

28 Nosler
195 EOL
3030fps MV

Interesting! I have been hunting elk for nearly 40 years and guided for 17 years and have observed the following: 17 bulls that were lost were shot with the "flat shooting" 7mm. Near every bull that went down within 50 to 100 yards was shot with a 30 caliber (+) firearm and a number of those were pass through shots. I've taken 19 elk myself with a .338 Win Mag using 200 grain bullets (never at maximum muzzle velocity). My experience indicates that mass and energy are much more important than velocity. High velocity bullets fragment too quickly to get a pass through. Shoot a 30.06 bullet into a bag of sand and then shoot an arrow into the same bag of sand and observe the difference.

 

[WYO300RUM]

This was in New Mexico

Great , thanks ! I have max 20 pts. for elk there in Ca. where you live. $1523.00 for a non res tag ? $186.00 for a lic. They only give one non res tag for whole state. I want to get a Tule elk but not that bad. Even resident tag is $400 something. I shot a bighorn and a buck lope there long before I moved. Burned my deer points last year in X12 near Bridgeport. I've hunted deer twice in N.M. on friends ranch but there are no elk there. Have a bull tag for Az. this year. Excited.

 

[dallen0427]

I've seen similar reactions with other bullets too. I've shot somewhere around 30 moose in AK. Sometimes they go down fast, other times it's like they are not even hit. My first bull moose was shot at about 100 yards. I shot him 4 times with a 300 WM using 200 grain Nosler partitions. He sucked up all 4 and started to walk away. Then I seen the hind end take a dip and knew he was done. all but one moose was shot using those partitions. I shot just one using a 215 Berger at about 25 yards. He went down after running about 20 yards. Animals are sometimes slow to go down. The link shows one reacting similar to your elk. 200 nosler partition.

 

[VLD Pilot]

Interesting! I have been hunting elk for nearly 40 years and guided for 17 years and have observed the following: 17 bulls that were lost were shot with the "flat shooting" 7mm. Near every bull that went down within 50 to 100 yards was shot with a 30 caliber (+) firearm and a number of those were pass through shots. I've taken 19 elk myself with a .338 Win Mag using 200 grain bullets (never at maximum muzzle velocity). My experience indicates that mass and energy are much more important than velocity. High velocity bullets fragment too quickly to get a pass through. Shoot a 30.06 bullet into a bag of sand and then shoot an arrow into the same bag of sand and observe the difference.

Very good accesment no doubt. Law of averages has alot of meaning. The law of averages would certainly show a bigger heavier bullets mass to get the job done more effectively if needing to go this heavier bone to hit vitals. This isn't the case with Rib cage impact shots where lungs are destroyed. Many and I'd actually say most guided hunters shoot for front shoulders. That's been my personal experience. Big No No without the right bullet both in weight and diameter. I'd have to agree that for the average hunter, a 308/338 caliber heavy bullet pushed with a magnum or larger size cartridge is the "Go too" set up. I'll reinterate that I've seen numerous killed with .243-284 very effectively in the very adequate hands of experienced hunters/shooters. I consider myself a good shot and in the category of experienced shooter and I'd still prefer a 308/338 caliber rifle for Elk or larger game.

 

[WYO300RUM]

The question or issue about not getting a pass through is a perplexing one.

I've read about many people shooting a bull with bonded and even solids not getting a pass through. It's comes down to their build IMO. A broadside shot passes through skin ribs tissue and ribs again before getting to the off-side skin. At this point its likely doubled in diameter and is shedding velocity quickly.

At the point of exit the thick and elastic nature of a bulls skin is tough to penetrate for a bullet imo.

I killed a bull at exactly 20 yards with a 4 blade Satalite broadhead in Az. Went through both lungs and out the other side. I don't think it even hit a rib. Broadhead was perfect and sharp. Aluminum arrow at the time. Perfectly straight . Only the nock came off. He ran. I blew cow call couple times. He stopped and dropped. Maybe 50 yds. Not much muzzle energy or B.C. involved but just as dead. I like pass through's with arrows also.

 

[VLD Pilot]

I killed a bull at exactly 20 yards with a 4 blade Satalite broadhead in Az. Went through both lungs and out the other side. I don't think it even hit a rib. Broadhead was perfect and sharp. Aluminum arrow at the time. Perfectly straight . Only the nock came off. He ran. I blew cow call couple times. He stopped and dropped. Maybe 50 yds. Not much muzzle energy or B.C. I evolved but just as dead. I like pass through's with arrows also.

Enter and exit lungs and it's dead. When a hunter can think fast enough after the shot and throw a cow call to ease or slow down the hit bull, it makes the tracking job easier in many cases. Most times, hunters don't think fast enough to follow up with that cow call.

 

[WYO300RUM]

Enter and exit lungs and it's dead. When a hunter can think fast enough after the shot and throw a cow call to ease or slow down the hit bull, it makes the tracking job easier in many cases. Most times, hunters don't think fast enough to follow up with that cow call.

I called him to me with same call. 5 cow elk I've arrowed in the same area. I used call after shot also. Saves a lot of tracking. One turned around and was coming back to me when she dropped. Another a buddy wounded a cow. I went to his area and set up. Started calling and the cow he hit came out of trees to within 50 yds. of juniper tree I was behind. All I had was a frontal shot. Had 125 gr. Muzzy 4 blade. Shot her in the chest . She took off running to trees. Blew call couple times. She stopped turned around facing me and went down. Found buddy's arrow broke off sticking in it's butt.