Brakes vs recoil

[Lightvarmint]

Hey James that sounds awesome I am very glad to here that it stopped most of the recoil. Now i cant wait to get my 338 edge back from Darrell it should have arrived this evening at his place.
Thanks again James for convincing me to take it to him.

Nathan.

Nathan,

Not that you would want to, but I suspect you will be able to easily shoot it one-handed or free-recoil like in a benchrest match.

My custom Sako benchrest 22LR moves more than this gun does during a firing sequence.

It is simply amazing. I knew they worked well, but I had no idea they worked this well. Have fun and good luck with it.

Now if you decide you don't want it, remember our deal.

James

 

[nddodd]

Nathan,

Not that you would want to, but I suspect you will be able to easily shoot it one-handed or free-recoil like in a benchrest match.

My custom Sako benchrest 22LR moves more than this gun does during a firing sequence.

It is simply amazing. I knew they worked well, but I had no idea they worked this well. Have fun and good luck with it.

Now if you decide you don't want it, remember our deal.

James

I would absolutely love it if i could shoot it one handed but i am not going to get my expectations up that high. I owned a 300 ultra mag with one of Darrells quick discharge breaks on it and it was shooting a 210 berger at 3150 with a 26 in. barrel, if my edge would just shoot recoil wise like that i will be amazed and very very happy as well.

I want forget James

Nathan

 

[Lightvarmint]

I would absolutely love it if i could shoot it one handed but i am not going to get my expectations up that high. I owned a 300 ultra mag with one of Darrells quick discharge breaks on it and it was shooting a 210 berger at 3150 with a 26 in. barrel, if my edge would just shoot recoil wise like that i will be amazed and very very happy as well.

I want forget James

Nathan

Nathan,

I have a Wichita Silhouette pistol in .308. I have one of Darrells quick discharge brakes on it as well.

Shooting the same bullets in the 308 Wichita at 2500 fps with the quick discharge brake as in the XP 300 Dakota at 3000 fps with the radial brake, the differnence is simply amazing. The 308 with the quick discharge brake is brutal compared to the 300 Dakota with the Radial brake.

The 6mmBR in the Wichita MK40 with the quick discharge brake has much more recoil than the 300 Dakota XP with the radial brake.

You will see.

James

 

[AtownBcat]

Hey guys this has been some interesting reading....One quick question from a guy who uses his rig more for hunting than bench shooting(but still wants the least amount of recoil possible).With a brake with no holes on the bottom but with holes on the top shot from a more traditional hunting position(like a window ledge in a box blind or the rail on a tripod)would it not force the muzzle down and the cheek piece on the stock right into your face? So the recoil on your shoulder is reduced, instead you get a blow to the face.

 

[nddodd]

Hey guys this has been some interesting reading....One quick question from a guy who uses his rig more for hunting than bench shooting(but still wants the least amount of recoil possible).With a brake with no holes on the bottom but with holes on the top shot from a more traditional hunting position(like a window ledge in a box blind or the rail on a tripod)would it not force the muzzle down and the cheek piece on the stock right into your face? So the recoil on your shoulder is reduced, instead you get a blow to the face.

Hey AtownBcat, I cant speak for the new radial brake yet but i can speak for the quick discharge brake i had one on my 300 um it was a SFII and i was shooting 210 ber. at 3150 and shot out of a couple of box blinds and a few two man stands with a shooting rail and the rifle never once got me in the jaw. The recoil was next to nothing thats why i am really looking forward to that new radial brake on my 338 edge.

I think the object of the holes in the top was just to try to prevent muzzle flip, that away the rifle would stay as flat as possible rather than flipping straight up in the air.

I dont know if that helped you or not but thats what i experianced with mine.


Nathan

 

[Fiftydriver]

I am kind of suprised this topic has come up. I can not remember a 338 Edge I have built in the past with any partition style muzzle brake that was anything but totally comfortable to shoot from any position with this weight class rifle.

That said, I do not use the Vias brakes or any other radial port brakes, they simply do not reduce recoil as well as the partition style brakes. They may not produce as intense of a muzzle blast but they also do not reduce recoil nearly as efficently either. No free lunches, got to have one to get the other.

It has not mattered if I was using the Holland QD, Nates V-ports, Shawns 4 port DEs or my PKs, all have made the 338 Edge and larger 338 magnums loaded with the 300 gr SMK from 2850 to 3000 fps extremely comfortable to shoot. Tee shirt rifles all day long really.

I am totally mystified why this rifle has been causing so many problems concerning recoil. Perhaps its the stock design but generally the HS stocks do well with recoil.

I am just amazed this 338 Edge has caused so much of a recoil problem, that is not a characteristic of the 338 Edge, in fact one advantage is its great performance with relative lack of recoil for this class or chambering. Using a brake of course. Without a brake, ya, can be a bit snippy on recoil.

 

[Lightvarmint]

I am betting the price of the rifle (based on the offer to buy it if it still recoils too much) that his problems are over as soon as Darrell gets it back to him and he pulls the trigger on the first heavy 338 bullet.

However, if they are not, I get a new rifle built by the lengendary R. W. Hart & Son company.

It is a win-win scenario for someone.

Kirby, remember you are more accustomed to the potentially hard recoiling guns than most. Some folks just don't like it or even the thought of it.... What is small to you is big to most and what is big to most is probably small to you. You as a custom gunsmith have a much different perspective than the owner of just one modified factory rifle actioned rifle for taking the big critters. I am sure Nathan is more in tune with a PPC or BR case than a high performance hunting gun.

On another note, since the Holland Radial baffle brake works so well and recoil is basically non-existent, and, my XP-100 ejection port will just handle a 338 RUM casing, a 338 RUM may be an interesting project down the road to tinker with...... Maybe even neck it to .30 who knows.

I personally think the pistolero crowd using rifle scopes is the big benefactor of this brake design being discussed on this thread.

James

 

[Fiftydriver]

LV,

It may be true I shoot larger rifles more often then most but I will be honest, I HATE recoil. I have gotten so used to having no recoil that I simply do not tollerate it anylonger. I can live with it and shoot well with a certain level of recoil if I have to but I do not like it at all.

Thats one reason I designed my Painkiller muzzle brake. I can live with muzzle blast. Having shot the 50 BMG and my larger 510 AM for many years, I have pretty much become numb to muzzle blast.

I beleive that many preceive muzzle blast as recoil when they shoot a rifle with a muzzle brake even though there is much less slap on the shoulder, they often feel it more on the forhead, nose and even in their mouth(yes I have had some customers say some muzzle brakes make their teeth hurt!!).

I do not believe that is the case here but eveyone does feel recoil and experience muzzle blast differently. Some have such a hard time mentally getting used to no recoil that they have a hard time shooting a rifle well that has a muzzle brake installed until they get their brain retrained.

As far as your XP-100 idea. We have tested alot of big XPs up to and including the 338 Lapua. In the 30 cal bore with a 17" class barrel, the 300 Dakota is about max as far as useful velocity increase over smaller chamherings. In 7mm, its the 7mm Dakota class chamberings.

In 338, the 338 RUM is pretty big. It will work and work well but your on the limits of where any useful velocity gains can be had over smaller chamberings.

Larger chamberings then these can certainly be used but you will not get much out of them over the smaller except increased muzzle blast.

One word of caution, If you use one of these large, high capacity magnums in an XP barrel 18" or smaller with a muzzle brake with a rearward rake on the ports, BE EXTREMELY CAREFUL when you shoot it, not only yourself but also bystandards, everyone needs to have eye protection as there WILL be unburnt or burning powder coming out of that muzzle brake, trust me, I know this to be a fact. Its not as big of a problem with 30 cal and larger calibers but it will happen still. Not a matter of if something is coming out of the brake, only a matter of if anyone will be hit by it.

Muzzle brakes work AMAZINGLY well on these short barreled handcannons. The muzzle pressure is such that they work dramatically more efficent then even a rifle with a brake installed. The lightweight of the XP also adds to the effectiveness of the brakes.

Another word of caution, for any XP larger then 308 Win class, the stock needs to be properly reinforced to be able to survive the recoil stress of these chamberings. With a chambering the size of a WSM or larger, you need to put steel reinforcements behind the recoil lug support pad and make sure to use a heat treated, thick recoil lug or it WILL bend on you. Depending on the stock material, you may also have to reinforce the grip with a threaded steel rod as well.

Have fun!!

 

[Ernie]

LV,
On the PK brake:
A friend of mine just recently had Kirby build him a center-grip XP in 7mm Dakota very similar to mine with the PK Brake.
He did the same two-finger test as I did with mine with the same stellar results. Doug was with us when Len video-taped my custom AP XP-100 with Holland's new Radial Partition brake.
My assumption was that Kirby's PK worked great on large capacity XP's and that has been proven to be true.
Even though the brakes are slightly different in design, I believe the results for both are excelllent.
I am glad we have a number of folks who keep improving the sport for us.
Thanks Guys!!!

 

[philny1]

Nathan
Well, we're all waiting impatiently--whats the word when are ya gonna get that kicker back.
Phil

 

[nddodd]

HEy guys got off the phone with one of the girls yesterday. She said that Darrell noticed a problem with the recoil lug and said it could hinder the accuracy of the rifle so i told him to do what he needed to do to make it right. HE said no problem, the gun should ship out back to me on wed. with three day shipping maybe it will be here on saturday. I cant wait to tell you guys all about it, i will post some pics of it as well.

Thanks guys for everything
Nathan

 

[biggrizz408]

Nathan

That sounds great. I just recived the last of my parts for my edge today and hopfuly start on the build this week end.


keep us posted
James

 

[txlongrange]

Nathan,

Not that you would want to, but I suspect you will be able to easily shoot it one-handed or free-recoil like in a benchrest match.

My custom Sako benchrest 22LR moves more than this gun does during a firing sequence.

It is simply amazing. I knew they worked well, but I had no idea they worked this well. Have fun and good luck with it.

Now if you decide you don't want it, remember our deal.

James

I jumped on this thread a little late, but I've talked to Nathan about this in the past as well.

I've got a 338 Edge built by Shawn himself with his break on it and I can shoot it one handed off the bags.

I definitely think Nathan's going to enjoy the new Holland break.

TXLR

 

[nddodd]

Hey guys checked my tracking numbers on the gun it should be here on monday. Ive already got some 300gr smk's loaded up for it so if the weather is good and not raining i should be able to tell yall something by monday night.

Thanks for everyones help
Nathan Dodd