Brakes vs recoil

[Buffalobob]

Shawn makes a four slot brake and that would have probably have been a better choice to start with for a rifle with a lot of recoil.

 

[nddodd]

Nathan~

When we spoke about the rifle, I remember telling you that it shot well, but just a bit more recoil than Phil liked. The rifle originally had the brake in the picture at the beginning of this thread, I seem to recall it's a DE brake. After a few rounds, I took it off and installed a Vias. Seemed to help a little, but still was a bit stout for my pansy assed friend Phil.
I'm sure if you install a large baffle type brake, it will tame it down quite a bit. I've shot quite a few rifles with the Holland brake, and they seem to work well. It's worth the few dollars to try that combination. I think you made a wise decision.

Dont feel bad Phil i will be a pansy *** with ya bud. Hey Joel that was pretty good.


Nathan.

 

[philny1]

Nathan~

When we spoke about the rifle, I remember telling you that it shot well, but just a bit more recoil than Phil liked. The rifle originally had the brake in the picture at the beginning of this thread, I seem to recall it's a DE brake. After a few rounds, I took it off and installed a Vias. Seemed to help a little, but still was a bit stout for my pansy assed friend Phil.
I'm sure if you install a large baffle type brake, it will tame it down quite a bit. I've shot quite a few rifles with the Holland brake, and they seem to work well. It's worth the few dollars to try that combination. I think you made a wise decision.

Listen to my good friend Joel calling me a pansy ***. Ol' Baby Huey, probably has 100 # on me and let me tell ya he whinned long and loud when the butt of that rifle was against his shoulder. He manage to distance himself from that gun in a hurry, meaning back to Harrisburg and his keyboard.
As far as comparing the two brakes--ya would have to cut a cats whisker mighty thin to make the call--but there was less recoil with the DE brake. Joel doesn't know, like they say he was in the rear with the gear while I was getting my pansy *** kicked by that nasty rifle.
Getting back on track, don't ya find it interesting how a number of members jumped in and tried to help out with this recoil problem. Several mentioned different brakes to try, quite a few said the DE brake was the way to go and I find it hard to beleive it didn't tame that gun as it has for so many others. Maybe we're looking at the wrong end of the rifle. Is it possible that the stock is the problem. One poster mentioned his Edge-DE braked rifle recoiled like a 243, would like to know what stock he's set up with.
Phil

 

[nddodd]

I second that last part Phil i would like to know what kind of stock he had as well.



Nathan

 

[Lightvarmint]

Shawn makes a four slot brake and that would have probably have been a better choice to start with for a rifle with a lot of recoil.

The Holland RADIAL brake is on a video starring Ernie and produced by Len Backus on this website of a hard-kicking 7mm Dakota pistol using some of the bigger 7 MM bullets that is being held with two fingers and the shooter is planted behind it using a riflescope..... The gun did not torque out of the two finger hold and did not rotate back and crack the shooter between the eyes.

I don't know if the DE brake or any others for that matter will perform as well as this.

But with the given evidence that the Holland will perform well on a hand-cannon pistol with a rifle scope and it is documented on video by the owner of this site, why go with an unknown quantity?

It would be interresting to see all the ones that have been mentioned here tested on the same gun to get some side by side data.

However, since this is not done yet, I purchased the radial brake for my 300 Dakota XP for the same reason that Ernie has one on his 7mm Dakota....... They work well on the hand cannon pistols........

If they work on those pistols, then it should be a slam dunk on the rifles. I have tested the standard Holland's brake against a Harrel brake and it was not even a fair test.

Tell you what, if some of the brake companies want their brakes tested side by side, just send me one (that I can use for the test and then return when finished with testing) and we can video them on my 300 Dakota XP-100 and get some side by side comparisons.

Until then, I will have to consider the Holland's brake the "king of the hill" due to its great performance on Ernie's 7mm Dakota XP-100.

Another point is that for the tests to be fair, I think the diameter of the baffle area should be relatively close to the same diameter.....

My Holland's is the 1.2" (1.185") model.

This discussion will probably set some out on missions to improve upon the existing brakes that we have available today. We all win when that happens.

James

 

[Buffalobob]

The laws of physics that pertain to recoil and brakes for guns that are not semi auto do not change with cosmetics nor with the name of the manufacturer nor can one make a leap from an XP to a rifle without performing the math. Semi autos are more complicated because you have to keep track of more moving masses and the timing of their movement.

If Joel had used a four slot brake to begin with, then the rifle would have had less felt recoil. Whether that would have been acceptable to a given individual is not known; however, one can make a reasonable estimate once the individual decides if the Holland brake reduces the felt recoil to a level that is acceptable.

 

[philny1]

The laws of physics that pertain to recoil and brakes for guns that are not semi auto do not change with cosmetics nor with the name of the manufacturer nor can one make a leap from an XP to a rifle without performing the math. Semi autos are more complicated because you have to keep track of more moving masses and the timing of their movement.

If Joel had used a four slot brake to begin with, then the rifle would have had less felt recoil. Whether that would have been acceptable to a given individual is not known; however, one can make a reasonable estimate once the individual decides if the Holland brake reduces the felt recoil to a level that is acceptable.

Hi Jim
That DE brake was off the 270 AM barrel that was originally on that rifle. It handled that cartridge just fine with the 190gr Wildcats. Now we are talking bullets that are 35 -110gr grs heavier. Guess neither one of us realized there was a four slot version.
Phil

 

[Buffalobob]

I wondered where that brake came from. Mine was just happenstance from a customer who cancelled an order with Kirby after Kirby already ordered parts so he gave it to me for the same price as a three slot brake.

Running bullets 50% heavier creates 50% more recoil divided by the ratio of the decrease in velocity ( I think - I am old school and do not do math well on a computer).

 

[Lightvarmint]

The laws of physics that pertain to recoil and brakes for guns that are not semi auto do not change with cosmetics nor with the name of the manufacturer nor can one make a leap from an XP to a rifle without performing the math. Semi autos are more complicated because you have to keep track of more moving masses and the timing of their movement.

If Joel had used a four slot brake to begin with, then the rifle would have had less felt recoil. Whether that would have been acceptable to a given individual is not known; however, one can make a reasonable estimate once the individual decides if the Holland brake reduces the felt recoil to a level that is acceptable.

BB,

An xp-100 is a bolt action pistol not a semi auto matic.

Specifically, which laws of physics were you referring to?

James

 

[Lightvarmint]

BB,

How about measuring the square inches of the baffle openings in your pictured brake and let us know what they measure.

I just unwrapped my XP-100 barrelled action package from Holland's. It was a seven day total trip SC to OR, brake installation and then the return trip OR to SC. Not bad for seven days total using priority mail.

The Holland's Radial brake has:

(6) baffle openings of .425" x .870" = 2.2185 sq in total surface area of the baffle openings

AND

(3) .240" holes in the top of the brake = .0452304 sq in total surface area of the top hole openings

Total = 2.2637304 in sq surface area for gas escape

We could also get a cu in value by measuring the depth of the baffles, but since this brake is 1.2" in diameter, I doubt it is necessary to get close to the four baffled one you pictured.

On the Holland's, you might not have accounted for the angle of the baffle openings.... The baffles are slightly oriented toward the rear to develop a slight pull action.

In your photo it looks as though the one pictured exhausts the gas perpendicular to the bore line. If it is perpendicular to the bore line, it will not operate as effective as one that has a rearward exhaust angle. And, as you know, the more of a rearward angle the less the felt recoil.

James

 

[Lightvarmint]

Hello,

I just tested the Holland's radial brake in the XP-100 Bolt action pistol in 300 Dakota with 82 grains H1000.

I fire formed some brass and tested the pressure boundaries since not much loading information available.

Lots of noise, but no recoil. We shot 180 grain loads that were much warmer than the 300 win mag loads and it is simply hard to believe that the "nudge" is so slight during firing.

The "nudge" is really not much more than my S&W model 41 22LR with a 5" barrel.

My 9MM HK pistols are severely"brutal" as compared to the 300 Dakota XP with 82 grains H1000.

Good job Darrell and thanks again for the excellent customer service.

I guess I won't get Nathan's 338 edge now.

I really see no reason to buy any other muzzle brake unless Darrell quits making them.

James

 

[Ernie]

James,
Glad to hear you had such a pleasant experience.
Not only is Holland's Radial brake angled back it is also radiused.
Here is a pic to compare the Quick Discharge to the new Radial.
Please excuse the prop (kitchen glass that is upsidae down-Hey, it worked!).
E

 

[Lightvarmint]

Ernie,

Both of my Wichita pistols (.308 and the 6mmbr) have the quick discharge brakes on them.

They both recoil much more than the 300 Dakota with the Radial brake.

The 300 Dakota feels very siimilar to fire forming brass in the 6 ppc with corn meal or wax.....

It is really hard to believe that a bullet went down the barrel!!!!

James

 

[nddodd]

Hey James that sounds awesome I am very glad to here that it stopped most of the recoil. Now i cant wait to get my 338 edge back from Darrell it should have arrived this evening at his place.
Thanks again James for convincing me to take it to him.

Nathan.