Brainstorming an Ultra-handy large caliber Long ranger

[ruby76]

I love my 338 Sherman shortmag. couple of us are getting well over 2800 with a 250 berger and low 60's grains of powder. There is still on going testing with different powder and bullets. The cartridge (saum based) has great efficiency and does not need a long barrel to get great velocities.

 

[Hand Skills]

Outside of .338 it seems pretty hard to find a bullet with a G1 BC over .500 in the medium bore category.

One exception is Peregrine's .366 250gr, G1 of .516

Many .338 250gr choices with G1 > .6 though. Hard to deny beyond the 1/2 mile.

 

[yorke-1]

Numerous starting with 7mm Stw's, 300wm, 300 rum, and 375 Ruger, along with my brother's .338L's.

It wouldn't be too off topic to share your results here. I'd love to hear what you experienced when shooting the same loads in both short and long barrels in each chambering and the differences you saw when switching to a faster burning powder under the same conditions. If we can get enough data then maybe we can all start to come to a consensus. Maybe I'll dig through my log books and pull all the data I have from years firing the same loads in rifle length (24-30") and specialty pistol length (14-20") barrels. That's not including 20+ rifle chamberings I've worked with in short (under 18") barrels that I didn't have longer barrels to test the same loads in.

It's simple physics and you can never beat the physics.

Nothing in physics is actually simple and over simplifying it usually means something gets overlooked. My focus back in college was kinematics so internal ballistics is a little out of my bubble. I will confidently say though that while you can't "beat" physics, you can manipulate it pretty easily.

 

[Pdvdh]

My focus back in college was kinematics so internal ballistics is a little out of my bubble. I will confidently say though that while you can't "beat" physics, you can manipulate it pretty easily.

Agree. And those with the best understanding of the principles of physics and engineering, are the best and most successful manipulators.

 

[TXAoudadKlr]

375-338LM. It's mighty hard to argue with over 6,000ft lbs

 

[WildRose]

It wouldn't be too off topic to share your results here. I'd love to hear what you experienced when shooting the same loads in both short and long barrels in each chambering and the differences you saw when switching to a faster burning powder under the same conditions. If we can get enough data then maybe we can all start to come to a consensus. Maybe I'll dig through my log books and pull all the data I have from years firing the same loads in rifle length (24-30") and specialty pistol length (14-20") barrels. That's not including 20+ rifle chamberings I've worked with in short (under 18") barrels that I didn't have longer barrels to test the same loads in.



Nothing in physics is actually simple and over simplifying it usually means something gets overlooked. My focus back in college was kinematics so internal ballistics is a little out of my bubble. I will confidently say though that while you can't "beat" physics, you can manipulate it pretty easily.

Exactly what I have stated repeatedly above.

Slower powders equals more powder burning beyond the bore upon firing with shorter barrels producing significantly higher levels of recoil and muzzle blast using Identical loads.

You just get a faster and more complete burn in the chamber and barrel before the bullet exits as compared to the slower powders and that's by design.

The Slower powders allow us to push heavier projectiles further and faster without maxing out chamber pressures. It's more of a continual push steadily building speed the whole way down the longer tube rather than relying on an overwhelming initial touch off from the faster powder.

 

[WildRose]

It wouldn't be too off topic to share your results here. I'd love to hear what you experienced when shooting the same loads in both short and long barrels in each chambering and the differences you saw when switching to a faster burning powder under the same conditions. If we can get enough data then maybe we can all start to come to a consensus. Maybe I'll dig through my log books and pull all the data I have from years firing the same loads in rifle length (24-30") and specialty pistol length (14-20") barrels. That's not including 20+ rifle chamberings I've worked with in short (under 18") barrels that I didn't have longer barrels to test the same loads in.



Nothing in physics is actually simple and over simplifying it usually means something gets overlooked. My focus back in college was kinematics so internal ballistics is a little out of my bubble. I will confidently say though that while you can't "beat" physics, you can manipulate it pretty easily.

There are no pathways around Newton's Laws of thermodynamics.

 

[WildRose]

375-338LM. It's mighty hard to argue with over 6,000ft lbs

Except for the absolutely brutal recoil and muzzle blast.

The 4,000 ft-lbs from the 375 Ruger with 300gr's is plenty.

I have to admit that I'm struggling still and have been for years with not having at least one .375 Rum just to round out the collection.

 

[yorke-1]

Exactly what I have stated repeatedly above.

Slower powders equals more powder burning beyond the bore upon firing with shorter barrels producing significantly higher levels of recoil and muzzle blast using Identical loads.

You just get a faster and more complete burn in the chamber and barrel before the bullet exits as compared to the slower powders and that's by design.

The Slower powders allow us to push heavier projectiles further and faster without maxing out chamber pressures. It's more of a continual push steadily building speed the whole way down the longer tube rather than relying on an overwhelming initial touch off from the faster powder.

I'm asking you to quantify your claims with first hand accounts and data. What velocities did you get from both short (under 22") and long (over 26") barrels with a specific load and then what velocities did you get in the same guns after switching to a faster burning powder?

 

[alcesgigas]

Agree. And those with the best understanding of the principles of physics and engineering, are the best and most successful manipulators.

I'm surprised that the 338 Norma didn't get in on the show. Its got it all and delivers its best in a barrel 24-25 inches according to many sources. I've got a Lapua barrel that is going to be shortened to 24 by cutting off both ends; chamber forward due the usual and the brake end for the shortening and re-threading to 3/4 x 24. The plan is for the 338 Norma.

 

[WildRose]

Outside of .338 it seems pretty hard to find a bullet with a G1 BC over .500 in the medium bore category.

One exception is Peregrine's .366 250gr, G1 of .516

Many .338 250gr choices with G1 > .6 though. Hard to deny beyond the 1/2 mile.

Peregrine is working on a new VLR 5 line that is going to offer even Higher BC's. I just got a large shipment in and have to go through them to see if I have any of the newest production.

 

[WildRose]

I'm surprised that the 338 Norma didn't get in on the show. Its got it all and delivers its best in a barrel 24-25 inches according to many sources. I've got a Lapua barrel that is going to be shortened to 24 by cutting off both ends; chamber forward due the usual and the brake end for the shortening and re-threading to 3/4 x 24. The plan is for the 338 Norma.

Someone did in fact mention it a page or so back so you are not alone in your thinking.

 

[Pdvdh]

Kirby Allen told me long ago that 338 bores are pretty efficient at shorter lengths. He shortened a 338 RUM for me down to ~25.5".

I think you'll have plenty of barrel length for good performance in your Norma @ 24".

 

[AKdan]

It would be interesting to develope a load that that worked well in a long barrel, cut the barrel shorter, then slowly replace powder with an inert media(to maintain charge density/compression) until you see a change. I can't imagine it being much but it would be an interesting experiment and give you a solid idea how much gets wasted or how much is just higher pressure due to decreased volume behind the plug.