Best Elk Bullet

[WildRose]

You are right I do expect to trail them. I don't like shooting them in the front shoulder. I have been shooting 185 berger but I'm changing. With a bullet design to break apart like that I was always worried it wouldn't make it through. The hard part about out west is you can shoot them from one ridge to another or in the dark timber 30 yards away. I have seen elk hit with 338 that didn't drop. Extremely tough animal. Witch is way I'm looking for what most are using. Thanks

If you'd like to see one shot bang flops try the Perigrine VRG4 or their New VLR.

I put one through about 5' if big sable antelope that was facing me dead on. Put it just at the point of the sternum which turned then to fragments that destroyed the heart and lungs and exited along the inside of the left hind leg.

Same bullet on my big Kudu was put through both shoulders and the spine providing an instant death before he ever hit the ground.

No matter what I've shot from Wildebeest to Sable and Kudu to big feral hogs (well beyond 400lbs) I get the same results, an exit would that is one or two fingers in diameter almost no wasted meat, and not a single animal that took more than two steps before expiring.

 

[Korhil78]

Nice Hat now let me get some facts out there. The second story was nice but that was a .338 totally different gun. As for the first 50% is to much for me! Anyone who wants the facts call Berger and ask them their bullet is designed to loose it mass and not exit the animal period end of story! Call them. If they come out it is not what they were designed to do. I have shot or have seen 30 deer shot with 185 Berger and it is a cold day in hell if the Berger exits. shot 3 this year no exit from 100 -250 away. just facts and these are 190lb whitetail not 800lb elk. Thanks for your response but nothing is changing my mind about these bullets. I have been using and logging results from me and my buddys for years and none are completely happy. I have lost deer that ran off after a being shot running across a field. Two years ago I shot a deer standing in a field and it ran off. Found it the next and 200 yards from where I shot it no blood trail. Shot behind the front shoulder clipped the top of the heart and destroyed the lungs and not a drop of blood until I found where it was piled up. I did exactly what it was designed to do.

This is just my experience in the animals that I have killed so take it as you see it. I have killed a lot of whitetail deer and been with a lot of people when they have killed them. I have killed 4 elk and been on a few other hunts with buddies that have killed them. I have killed both whitetail and elk with a bow and a rifle. In my opinion you cant compare the two when choosing a bullet that will do the job for either or to get DRT results.

I have shot whitetail deer with a 25-06 all the way up to a 338 lapua. In the 25-06, I was using a 100 gr Nosler Ballistic Tip, 110 gr accubond and 117 gr SST. In a 300 WSM, I was using 180 Barnes TSX and in the 338 Lapua I was shooting a 300 gr Berger OTM (I only shot one whitetail with the Lapua).

Using each rifle, I had a lot of whitetail deer run off a ways before dying. I shot one with the 300 WSM with the 180 gr Barnes that ran about 150 yards with blood pouring out of it like a faucet before it fell over. The deer that I shot with the 338 Lapua ran about 50 yards before it fell over dead and that was with a 300 gr bullet! I was able to locate all of my deer so I was happy.

I have also shot deer with a bow and we all know that they can run quite a ways before dying so no need for explanations there.

Now with elk (in my experiences), they can soak up some lead and stay on their feet but they don't seem to get that burst of speed like a whitetail does. I shot my elk with my 338 Lapua at 740 yards. It walked maybe 15 yards at the most. WALKED and then just stood there until it bled out. I put 3 more rounds in it while it just stood there and fell over on the last shot. Were the 3 other shots needed? No...my first shot was through both lungs. But I have heard stories of elk building up steam and taking off if you don't keep putting lead into them until they fall. My buddy shot an elk at 300 yards with his 300 RUM using a 180 gr bullet. Upon impact, it walked about 20 yards and just fell over.

My other elk have been killed with a bow. The first one I shot ran fast for about 15 yards and then just stopped, looked around, wobbled and fell over. The second elk was shot at 20 yards and after the arrow went through both lungs, the elk just walked back up the hill and then laid down and died. The last elk that I shot was bedded down. The arrow went through both lungs as well and the elk got up out of his bed and ran about 20 yards and stood there until it bled out and fell over.

From my experiences, elk do not react to being shot like whitetail deer do. Most elk that I have seen shot, will soak it up and kind of mosey away. Whitetail deer will explode with energy when they are shot and run for quite a ways before expiring even if vitals are destroyed. I just think that elk and deer are wired different.

With that said, I shoot Bergers and Barnes BUT I shoot the heavier for caliber Berger bullets. If shooting a 30 cal rifle with a case capacity smaller than a RUM, I would go with the 210 or 215 gr Berger. The more the bullet the better the penetration and more of the bullet left in tact. When I am shooting the Barnes bullet, I use a lighter for caliber bullet. The Barnes bullets need a little more velocity to get them to open up consistently.

As for whitetail and the way that I believe they are wired, I don't think any bullet is going to just knock them down right in their tracks every single time. Every now and then, you are gonna have those deer that run on you after being plowed through the vitals.

Shooting a whitetail deer with a 300 gr bullet is basically like dropping ordinance on the little thing. And it STILL ran to about 50 yards. That really opened my eyes.

 

[jrsolocam]

Also Berger told me the bullet is designed to loose 90% of their weight. Did you use hunting or target? I believe the target bullets have a heavy jacket.

Mostly 140 vlds, 168 vlds and 215 hybrids. Most pass through, nearly all drt.

 

[lancetkenyon]

Just about any bullet will work if you put it where it needs to go. Hunting or "target" bullets alike.

I like 215 Hybrids out of my .300RUM @ 3100fps too. 437 yards, 20 degrees uphill, 15 degrees F.
Bull dropped in his tracks. rolled once downhill, kicked 5 times and done. Impact was just a bit high, and bullet did not exit. Hit a rib on entering, took out both lungs, shattered a vertebrae, and stopped just under the skin on the offside. One of only 2 bullets I have ever recovered. The other was an SMK. But both animals dropped instantly too. No tracking at all.

I know it is a different bullet, but my daughter also shot a big cow elk with a 7mm 180 Hybrid @ 3000fps @ 75 yards, and bullet exited in a spectacular 3" fashion. Blood trail was excellent for the 60 yards it went.

You might look at the Barnes lines if you want an exit. 200LRX, 175 LRX, 180 TTSX, 200 TSX, etc. They have worked great for me in every rifle I have shot them out of. From .257" 100 TTSX, 6.5mm 127 LRX, .270 150 TSX FB, 7mm 140 TTSX & 168 LRX, .308" 175 LRX.

I have used the 175 LRX @ 3310fps out of the same gun with decent results. Bullet exited.
175 SMK @ 3150 worked well. DRT. Not a twitch. Bullet was just under the offside skin again.
210 HVLD @ 2960 as a reduced load killed a bull @ 250 yards with a total of 2 steps. Bullet exited from a quartering away shot.

A 127 LRX @ 3050fps out of a 6.5 SLR took a big muley this fall for my 14 year old daughter. 637 yards and dropped at the impact. Bullet broke front shoulder, took out both lungs, shattered a vertebrae, and exited the off shoulder. We couldn't find it to weigh it.

A .257" 100 TTSX @ 3580fps travelled diagonally through a muley buck @ 488 yards and exited. Buck never took a step.
Same gun with a 115 HVLD @ 3400fps had the best blood trail I have ever seen for all of 15 yards before the buck dropped.

.270 150 XFB exited from an elk @ 160 yards. Elk dropped at the shot.

7mm 168 LRX dropped a coyote @ 30 yards.

 

[Jonoton]

I have a 7mm WSM that was chambered for 162 AMax. I am getting started reloading for it, and shall use it for elk. My maximum range would be 600 yards. I chose 600 because I think a hard limit is worth having to avoid getting too ambitious, and my range is limited to 650 yards. When I do go after an elk, I'll be trying to keep as much meat as possible.

So with the above info, what would be the ideal bullet to begin load development? I have 168gr Berger hunting bullets and 162gr AMAX on hand.

Thanks

 

[lancetkenyon]

Either the 162 AMAX or the 168 Berger will kill any elk alive at 600 yards of you put the bullet where it needs to go. So whichever one you can shoot better is what you should use. Both are great.

 

[Engineering101]

korhil78

I couldn't help but notice as I was reading your post that you think deer run pretty far when shot. I've shot a couple of dozen and I can't recall one that ran more than a few steps other than the 3 or 4 that were already running when hit but even they flopped over in 10 yards or so. I'm talking whitetail up to 250 pounds but averaging maybe 160 lbs. Eighty percent of those deer were shot with a 6mm Rem using 100 grain Sierra Game Kings. I'd almost always find the bullet on the opposite rib just under the hide. I can only conclude that I made a lucky pick in the equipment I used compared to what I might have tried. Thanks for the info.

 

[Korhil78]

korhil78

I couldn't help but notice as I was reading your post that you think deer run pretty far when shot. I've shot a couple of dozen and I can't recall one that ran more than a few steps other than the 3 or 4 that were already running when hit but even they flopped over in 10 yards or so. I'm talking whitetail up to 250 pounds but averaging maybe 160 lbs. Eighty percent of those deer were shot with a 6mm Rem using 100 grain Sierra Game Kings. I'd almost always find the bullet on the opposite rib just under the hide. I can only conclude that I made a lucky pick in the equipment I used compared to what I might have tried. Thanks for the info.

That's just what I myself have witnessed on whitetail and I'm not talking About a ton of them running off a long ways. But more so than elk in my findings.

 

[FEENIX]

Ok just looked up the 215 they are target bullets not hunting bullets.

Another vote for the 215/230 Bergers!

Nothing beats real world results ...

http://www.longrangehunting.com/forums/f19/comparing-berger-210-vld-215-hybrid-88657/

We shot our 90th elk this past season out of one small area in NM. And of all of the calibers we have used (6mm - .338), the .30 has been the king of one-shot kills. And Jeff's thread on the 215 Berger's raised our eyebrows.

We only took 36 this season because we were not offered the management hunts. Elk numbers here have taken a huge plunge here. A lot of that is due to the 30 cals.

 

[ski-dooz]

Broz don't need to call Berger and find out how their bullets work though he could just pick up the phone and call Eric or Bryan he has no need to since Berger is more than aware of Broz data on elk killing!!

Maybe you should have asked sooner how to use the right bullet and you could have been saved a whole lot of heartache, if you look at what guys who shoot a lot of elk with Bergers shoot you will not find them shooting mid to light weight bullets, they will all shoot heavy for cal mostly the 215 and 230 in the 30 cal, makes a HUGE difference!
I've NEVER had a 215 Berger stop in a deer, even hard quarter with a 308 blew a 2 inch hole out, chunks of heart, lung and gutts all over the place since it was a hard quartering shot, my 9 year old daughter tracked him by the blood trail which was short.
The most elk I saw shot in one year was right at 300, the lowest in a single season was in the 20's, I load and build rifles for a number of high count elk guides who shoot 30 cals, the two best 30 cal elk bullets are the 215 Berger and 230 Berger hands down.
I test new bullets every year to see if I can find one better, shot two elk this year with bullets most would hail as "elk bullets" perfect hits and both ran 200+ yards with zero blood, they were dead just the exits were small because of the nature of the bullet. When I find a better elk bullet I'll stop shooting Bergers!

Ok good I think you both need to call and tell Berger to stop giving out wrong information since you know them by name. I was told not to use anything but hunting bullets for hunting from Berger tech. I was also told Their bullet is design to shed its weight on impact and create damage inside the cavity. I CAN'T BELIEVE I have to keep repeating my self! It like arguing with my 4 year old I tell him something and he just doesn't listen. So when you say I should have ask sooner I did. I can only use the information I got from them and that was not to use them for hunting Period. """" PER BERGER TECH!!!!!!!!!!""""" Also I have to be honest with you if a Berger 185 is too small for deer then I guess I will go back to my 6mm 95gr Sierra partition. Always a blood trail and Never lost an animal. Really getting sick of it all maybe I will just hunt elk with it to and shoot them in the head. Look I think what I wrote was NO BERGER when I ask. I'm not saying that some Berger don't come out but I know from my experience is on a perfect broad side shot on a lot of animals I had no exit. You can Buy all you want I'm not. I have a lot for all cal.

 

[ski-dooz]

If you'd like to see one shot bang flops try the Perigrine VRG4 or their New VLR.

I put one through about 5' if big sable antelope that was facing me dead on. Put it just at the point of the sternum which turned then to fragments that destroyed the heart and lungs and exited along the inside of the left hind leg.

Same bullet on my big Kudu was put through both shoulders and the spine providing an instant death before he ever hit the ground.

No matter what I've shot from Wildebeest to Sable and Kudu to big feral hogs (well beyond 400lbs) I get the same results, an exit would that is one or two fingers in diameter almost no wasted meat, and not a single animal that took more than two steps before expiring.

Awesome Where can I Buy some?

 

[FEENIX]

If you don't like the on game performance of the Berger you most likely won't like the eld x. I killed 2 deer with them last fall and both had the bullets come apart. I recovered one bullet that started at 143 grains and weighed 87 grains and the core had separated from the jacket.

I will second what Broz says about the 215 Berger. To me it is the best choice for the 30 cal.

That's good to know, I have some 212s and 220s to try. gun)

 

[ski-dooz]

This is just my experience in the animals that I have killed so take it as you see it. I have killed a lot of whitetail deer and been with a lot of people when they have killed them. I have killed 4 elk and been on a few other hunts with buddies that have killed them. I have killed both whitetail and elk with a bow and a rifle. In my opinion you cant compare the two when choosing a bullet that will do the job for either or to get DRT results.

I have shot whitetail deer with a 25-06 all the way up to a 338 lapua. In the 25-06, I was using a 100 gr Nosler Ballistic Tip, 110 gr accubond and 117 gr SST. In a 300 WSM, I was using 180 Barnes TSX and in the 338 Lapua I was shooting a 300 gr Berger OTM (I only shot one whitetail with the Lapua).

Using each rifle, I had a lot of whitetail deer run off a ways before dying. I shot one with the 300 WSM with the 180 gr Barnes that ran about 150 yards with blood pouring out of it like a faucet before it fell over. The deer that I shot with the 338 Lapua ran about 50 yards before it fell over dead and that was with a 300 gr bullet! I was able to locate all of my deer so I was happy.

I have also shot deer with a bow and we all know that they can run quite a ways before dying so no need for explanations there.

Now with elk (in my experiences), they can soak up some lead and stay on their feet but they don't seem to get that burst of speed like a whitetail does. I shot my elk with my 338 Lapua at 740 yards. It walked maybe 15 yards at the most. WALKED and then just stood there until it bled out. I put 3 more rounds in it while it just stood there and fell over on the last shot. Were the 3 other shots needed? No...my first shot was through both lungs. But I have heard stories of elk building up steam and taking off if you don't keep putting lead into them until they fall. My buddy shot an elk at 300 yards with his 300 RUM using a 180 gr bullet. Upon impact, it walked about 20 yards and just fell over.

My other elk have been killed with a bow. The first one I shot ran fast for about 15 yards and then just stopped, looked around, wobbled and fell over. The second elk was shot at 20 yards and after the arrow went through both lungs, the elk just walked back up the hill and then laid down and died. The last elk that I shot was bedded down. The arrow went through both lungs as well and the elk got up out of his bed and ran about 20 yards and stood there until it bled out and fell over.

From my experiences, elk do not react to being shot like whitetail deer do. Most elk that I have seen shot, will soak it up and kind of mosey away. Whitetail deer will explode with energy when they are shot and run for quite a ways before expiring even if vitals are destroyed. I just think that elk and deer are wired different.

With that said, I shoot Bergers and Barnes BUT I shoot the heavier for caliber Berger bullets. If shooting a 30 cal rifle with a case capacity smaller than a RUM, I would go with the 210 or 215 gr Berger. The more the bullet the better the penetration and more of the bullet left in tact. When I am shooting the Barnes bullet, I use a lighter for caliber bullet. The Barnes bullets need a little more velocity to get them to open up consistently.

As for whitetail and the way that I believe they are wired, I don't think any bullet is going to just knock them down right in their tracks every single time. Every now and then, you are gonna have those deer that run on you after being plowed through the vitals.

Shooting a whitetail deer with a 300 gr bullet is basically like dropping ordinance on the little thing. And it STILL ran to about 50 yards. That really opened my eyes.

I agree nice write up. The reason why I ever started this all is two years ago I lost a elk that I shot at 150 yards with a 185 Berger and it has haunted me ever since. I know I hit it in the lungs quartering forward it folded and ran away. No blood looked for 4 hours never found it. I know it was dead some where but again no blood. When I got back I started looking for answers so I called Berger. That's when I found out they are not supposed to exit. I ask about heavier bullets and they said to use the 210 hunting. Whitetails are tough animals and they do take a lot to KO.

 

[bigngreen]

Wow you just can't wrap your mind around it can you, it's very clear you and the tech at Berger have killed way more elk than all of us so I'll just watch and learn from some real elk killers!