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Berger Match Hybrid Target 215 gr for Hunting?
- Thread starter NeedForSpeed
- Start date
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500000KV
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Dec 15, 2016
- Messages
- 399
Yeah, what he said. Haha.
OP Here are a couple of threads. There are not as many Zombies over there.
https://www.longrangeonly.com/forum...-hybrid-140-168-180-and-more.1855/#post-16399
https://www.longrangeonly.com/forum/threads/thread-terminal-performance-data-collection.2081/
https://www.longrangeonly.com/forum...-hybrid-140-168-180-and-more.1855/#post-16399
https://www.longrangeonly.com/forum/threads/thread-terminal-performance-data-collection.2081/
BlazerBeam
Well-Known Member
My theory/opinion on Berger bullets (both hunting and target types):
Many of us love rifles and shooting. Nothing I love more than getting a newly built rifle and breaking in the barrel and tuning a load to the barrel and taking it out to 1000 and beyond. We want to squeeze all of the accuracy possible at 100 yards as well as 1000 yards. Why would we choose a bullet with a BC of .55 when we can choose one with a BC of .691??? It's like we feel like an impotent man if we do not have the highest BC bullet available! Or that our magnum rifle has all of a sudden become less cool because the bullet it shoots has a lower BC. So we use the Berger 215. And We shoot all summer at steel and rocks and we just love how confident we are at nailing those rocks way out there……now, why would that guy now go and load up a 200 grain Accubond for hunting season? He won't, he will justify using his Berger and tout the "shot placement is king" mantra. And then he will kill an elk with it, which will then solidify his conversion to the beloved Berger.
The problem: the behavior of the bullet is unpredictable. That is not saying that it does not kill. It is only saying that it is unpredictable. Aaron Davidson from gunwerks said in a recent long range pursuit podcast something similar. He said that he always gets a kick out of people who preach cleaning and opening the tips of their Berger bullets. He said that people who do that, don't understand how a Berger behaves. He says that when a Berger penetrates into the animal at both close and far ranges, because there is not a polymer tip or "expansion initiator", the bullet begins to tumble, and as it tumbles the thin jacket of the bullet becomes stressed and it begins to break apart. In his words: "this is risky. But when it works, it works beautifully." He says that a Berger is actually his bullet of choice. Other people post pictures of a perfectly mushroomed Berger and say that it performed flawlessly. So which is it? Does it mushroom or break apart? Which performance is desired? Others will post pictures of a completely intact bullet with a slightly bent nose on it…..then the posts will follow about opening up the tips, which brings us back full circle to what Aaron Davidson laughs at.
So in short: people (including myself) fall in love with the shooting part of hunting more than anything else and that leads to the Berger being launched. Yes Broz has killed a lot of broadside elk with the 215 Berger. Waiting for a steeply quartering away bull to turn broadside when I may only have 5 seconds and he's gone for good is not something I like to do (But maybe I would if I was hunting in hay fields on a ranch). However, I know that if I drive an Accubond just ahead of his hip it will make it through his guts and into the vitals. This has been the case many times for me. The Berger would likely not cut the mustard in that scenario. I have also killed elk out to the 800 yard ballpark with an Accubond. Always a mushroom stuck to the hide on the opposite side.
So the 2 30 cal bullets that I have used to kill elk with are the 200 grain Accubond and the 215 Berger hybrid. I can say what I can count on every time about each one:
Berger—it will get to the animal accurately and efficiently
Accubond—when it hits an animal it will ALWAYS expand and penetrate.
So just like everyone else's opinion, take want you want from mine, but ultimately you have to live and learn and realize that most of what people say on the internet is worth what you pay for it.
Many of us love rifles and shooting. Nothing I love more than getting a newly built rifle and breaking in the barrel and tuning a load to the barrel and taking it out to 1000 and beyond. We want to squeeze all of the accuracy possible at 100 yards as well as 1000 yards. Why would we choose a bullet with a BC of .55 when we can choose one with a BC of .691??? It's like we feel like an impotent man if we do not have the highest BC bullet available! Or that our magnum rifle has all of a sudden become less cool because the bullet it shoots has a lower BC. So we use the Berger 215. And We shoot all summer at steel and rocks and we just love how confident we are at nailing those rocks way out there……now, why would that guy now go and load up a 200 grain Accubond for hunting season? He won't, he will justify using his Berger and tout the "shot placement is king" mantra. And then he will kill an elk with it, which will then solidify his conversion to the beloved Berger.
The problem: the behavior of the bullet is unpredictable. That is not saying that it does not kill. It is only saying that it is unpredictable. Aaron Davidson from gunwerks said in a recent long range pursuit podcast something similar. He said that he always gets a kick out of people who preach cleaning and opening the tips of their Berger bullets. He said that people who do that, don't understand how a Berger behaves. He says that when a Berger penetrates into the animal at both close and far ranges, because there is not a polymer tip or "expansion initiator", the bullet begins to tumble, and as it tumbles the thin jacket of the bullet becomes stressed and it begins to break apart. In his words: "this is risky. But when it works, it works beautifully." He says that a Berger is actually his bullet of choice. Other people post pictures of a perfectly mushroomed Berger and say that it performed flawlessly. So which is it? Does it mushroom or break apart? Which performance is desired? Others will post pictures of a completely intact bullet with a slightly bent nose on it…..then the posts will follow about opening up the tips, which brings us back full circle to what Aaron Davidson laughs at.
So in short: people (including myself) fall in love with the shooting part of hunting more than anything else and that leads to the Berger being launched. Yes Broz has killed a lot of broadside elk with the 215 Berger. Waiting for a steeply quartering away bull to turn broadside when I may only have 5 seconds and he's gone for good is not something I like to do (But maybe I would if I was hunting in hay fields on a ranch). However, I know that if I drive an Accubond just ahead of his hip it will make it through his guts and into the vitals. This has been the case many times for me. The Berger would likely not cut the mustard in that scenario. I have also killed elk out to the 800 yard ballpark with an Accubond. Always a mushroom stuck to the hide on the opposite side.
So the 2 30 cal bullets that I have used to kill elk with are the 200 grain Accubond and the 215 Berger hybrid. I can say what I can count on every time about each one:
Berger—it will get to the animal accurately and efficiently
Accubond—when it hits an animal it will ALWAYS expand and penetrate.
So just like everyone else's opinion, take want you want from mine, but ultimately you have to live and learn and realize that most of what people say on the internet is worth what you pay for it.
I agree sno. That is exactly why I use bergers. I cant speak for African game as I have never taken any, or hunted them. I have killed many many elk though. I don`t feel like I`m taking even a small chance using bergers in MY experience. We all have expectations of how our bullets should perform, and bergers perform exactly how I want MY bullets to perform. Small hole in, Catastrophic trauma inside, Tennis ball size exit. Not disagreeing with you, I am posting on MY experience. I know there are many who agree that bergers are no good for hunting. I have shot game with many different bullets over the years, SGKs, ELDs, Accubond, Ballistic Tips, Partitions, Barnes, and they all performed as advertised (except the Barnes X) This is just one mans opinion.
I agree with a lot that is said here in both directions.But my remarks are to bullet type and I have alot of experiance on game.BUT,WITH A 338/300.Which is a big difference.Hunt it your whole life and youll see.I punch 200AB out of my 300wsm. I shoot elk any angle I want,none walked away.As posted above,Iveshot all those type and others.
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Love my 338 Edge +P (338/300) and a 300 OTM
Speedy you are way over thinking this.. Yes they have made leaps and bounds in bullets on which tears up the most tissue to kill a deer.
But come on.. A 22 Magnum has probably killed more deer (Mostly at Night & Most/Or Illegally) than the mighty Winchester 30-30.. And how much does an arrow tear up that does not Fragment!
Shot Placement will kill that Auodad. with any bullet you put in that big 300 Win. Mag. if you hit it right.
Good Luck in your Hunt! Post those photos when you do kill it.
Bruce Treloar
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Dec 28, 2017
- Messages
- 182
Berger projectiles are very accurate and their copper jackets are used by most custom bullet makers due to their precise wall thickness. I have been making 224, 243 and 308 using more for field shooting than target. Anyone with a 1/4 moa rifle and wind doping experience can place these projectiles in a vital spot for a humane kill with less meat damage.
If shooting an old worn out banger then you will never see the advantage of these or custom bullets.
As Robert Ruark said in his book on hunting big game: "Use enough gun"
And, as Harry Callahan said: "A man's got to know his limitations"
And, as Harry Callahan said: "A man's got to know his limitations"
snox801
Well-Known Member
I must agree with statement that you are using a win mag. That's a whole lotta bullet and I highly doubt an Audad could soak it up.
Indians killed probably every big game species that was here when they were on the hunt. They did it with two sticks, a string, some feathers and a rock. I'm sure some animals didn't go down super fast, but they did it none the less. Shoot which ever bullet you want, put it where it needs to be (the main thing) and enjoy your hunt. 300-350lb animal vs 300win mag. Inside 300 yards. No brainer the winner as long as you don't take a sketchy shot. There is no one magic bullet/cartridge combo to shoot him in the foot and watch him flop. This has almost turned in Ford bs Chevy.
snox801
Well-Known Member
Haven't you heard hammers are magic. Come on get with the time man!Indians killed probably every big game species that was here when they were on the hunt. They did it with two sticks, a string, some feathers and a rock. I'm sure some animals didn't go down super fast, but they did it none the less. Shoot which ever bullet you want, put it where it needs to be (the main thing) and enjoy your hunt. 300-350lb animal vs 300win mag. Inside 300 yards. No brainer the winner as long as you don't take a sketchy shot. There is no one magic bullet/cartridge combo to shoot him in the foot and watch him flop. This has almost turned in Ford bs Chevy.
