215 Berger Target for hunting

[FURMAN]

You will see reports all over the place for the 300WM with 215s. I have had one with a 27" and one with a 28" barrel. Both allowed seating the bullet above the NSJ. They pushed the 215 2890 and 2950 respectively. Some get faster but I would not build a custom expecting something that may not happen. The problem with the WSM is twofold. One is some guys are shooting them in short mag boxes and often short barrels with powders not really well suited for the cartridge. The second is guys who I trust their data more are looking for a node good enough to win but not too fast to induce unnecessary torque and most often use looooong barrel. I will say that there is no doubt the WSM will be more efficient. On average it is going to loose 100 FPS to the WM with both set up the same.

 

[Educated Redneck]

rfurman24
I don't quite understand your statement above. I had a wore out Weatherby 300 and the stock magazine is 3.600. I had a Brux barrel installed chambered for the 300 WM and told the smith I wanted the bullet to just touch the lands with the 215 Berger loaded at 3.6. That way I could look for the sweet spot moving away from the lands. For some reason that did not happen and I have .200 jump.

This would be correct thinking on most cartridges. Usually hand loaders want a LONGER throat as to seat the bullet out further in the case and they ask the barrel maker to provide a longer custom throat based on a few concentric dummy rounds or via a print. The smith runs a throat reamer after they do the whole chamber to accommodate this (I think I have that right). I think that's what you wanted to do right. Problem is with the stock factory sammi or what ever it is reamer for a weatherby chamber has a very long throat from the get go. Not weatherby guns per say, but the chamber designs named after them is what I mean. To my knowledge, they all have very long throats. If I was making a custom weatherby, I'd ask them to make a throat SHORTER than a factory chambering as to touch, seat, or jump the lands during my load development as you mentioned you desire. To do this from a smith standpoint specifically on a weathby reamer, you'd need just a chamber reamer that does not cut the throat (these reamers are rare and your smith likely didn't have one), and then do the throat after the body is reamed. You'd ask the smith to ream the thoat shorter than saami in this case. Said another way, weatherby chambers all have LONG throats from the factory and so would any ordinary reamer. The long throat was an old school trick to increase velocity without increasing pressure. Big jump = more speed and less pressure versus into the lands. For this reason and the fact that most weatherby chamberings are overbore and excessive powder capacity for the caliber (you can only make a bullet go so fast before the pressure goes up drastically exponentially not linear which has other negative shooting effects) is why I don't opt for weatherby chamberings. Clear as mud right? Also, I'm knowledgeable enough to be dangerous and not an expert so someone may correct some of my ramblings, but I think I got the most of it.

 

[jareese]

With my 230's loaded at 3.7" OAL I'm .020 off the lands in my rifle.

 

[Bravo 4]

I've shot two whitetail deer at about 250 yds with a 300 weatherby mag using the same bullet as the OP. Both performed very poorly. While the deer dropped dead in their tracks, the bullet never expanded and had a pencil hole in and pencil out. Both shots were quartered away into the boiler room and the sonic boom from a very fast traveling bullet liquefied most of the lungs, but I was disappointing with the exit hole.

That said, some years ago I had the same experience as in your thread, when I shot a young red deer at short distance (100 yds or so). The bullet hit the deer between the ribs. Same position of the exit hole. The deer started moving into the bush: impossible to double the shot. The deer dropped dead at short distance. Both the holes were very small, with no expansion. Even here, the lungs were mostly liquefied.

You sure there was zero expansion...and liquified the lungs? Small hole in-liquified internals-small hole out? Sounds more like the bullets came apart, wreaked hell on the insides, and only a piece of it existed.
I've shot animals that I'm sure the bullet didn't expand as intended. Small hole in, small hole through lungs, small hole out...then they either ran a significant ways/time, or I had to put multiple rounds through them in short order before they did.
On was a .300 WinMag almost at the muzzle! So I'm sure retained velocity wasn't the issue.

Disclaimer: not the same bullets as discussed in this thread.

 

[257Tony]

You sure there was zero expansion...and liquified the lungs? Small hole in-liquified internals-small hole out? Sounds more like the bullets came apart, wreaked hell on the insides, and only a piece of it existed.
I've shot animals that I'm sure the bullet didn't expand as intended. Small hole in, small hole through lungs, small hole out...then they either ran a significant ways/time, or I had to put multiple rounds through them in short order before they did.
On was a .300 WinMag almost at the muzzle! So I'm sure retained velocity wasn't the issue.

Disclaimer: not the same bullets as discussed in this thread.

Yep, I've seen this many times with Bergers. A piece of jacket, or two, will exit and people think it didn't expand.

 

[MAF47]

As reply to Bravo4 and 257 Tony, on my experience I can tell that the exit hole of a bullet after fragmentation is normally larger than the bullet diameter. In the case quoted in my thread I just checked what happened inside the room, and did'nt find any trace of copper or lead. Consequently, the cause of the liquefied internals is to be definitely attributed to the hydroshock.

 

[MAF47]

What speed did you get with the 215 and what was your COAL? Trying to figure out if it's worthwhile to get a wsm barrel cut for my action or if my 2.95 mag length means I should just build a win mag.

I got some 2990 with comfortable pressure. COAL is approx 3.1".

 

[Bravo 4]

As reply to Bravo4 and 257 Tony, on my experience I can tell that the exit hole of a bullet after fragmentation is normally larger than the bullet diameter. In the case quoted in my thread I just checked what happened inside the room, and did'nt find any trace of copper or lead. Consequently, the cause of the liquefied internals is to be definitely attributed to the hydroshock.

I can see where you're coming from, but do you think a FMJ bullet will cause such a permanent wound cavity as to liquify the internals of an animal the size of a deer? Will they impart such hydrostatic shock? My experience with such projectiles is that unless they yaw or tumble they do not create wounds near that catastrophic. If they hit bone and cause secondary projectiles, then that's another matter.

 

[MAF47]

I can see where you're coming from, but do you think a FMJ bullet will cause such a permanent wound cavity as to liquify the internals of an animal the size of a deer? Will they impart such hydrostatic shock? My experience with such projectiles is that unless they yaw or tumble they do not create wounds near that catastrophic. If they hit bone and cause secondary projectiles, then that's another matter.

Yes. If you consider the effect of the projectile in the middle of the mass of the internal organs, the shock wave will disintegrate those tissues mostly composed by water.
Of course, in case of fragmentation this effect will be amplified, but the shock vawe is due basically to the bullet body. Don't you agree?

 

[Deleted member 103481]

I don't agree, I've seen expanding bullets not even come close to "liquifying" a chest cavity on a deer much less a bullet that will not release an energy dump due to deformation.

 

[MAF47]

I don't agree, I've seen expanding bullets not even come close to "liquifying" a chest cavity on a deer much less a bullet that will not release an energy dump due to deformation.

My statement doesn't mean that the consequence of the hydroshock gets an immediate death. I just pointed out the particular situation of no expansion with a minimum energy release.

 

[gillettehunter]

If a Berger doesn't expand my first thought is what was impact velocity. Cases mentioned above that is not the issue. So next is did you use a drill or a piece of wire to check for a clogged tip? Have to check every one. A clogged tip will NOT EXPAND. Some boxes I've checked have over 20% that need drilled out. It has been discussed and mentioned in multiple threads on here. Don't check and you'll eventually get one that doesn't expand.
Bruce

 

[bigngreen]

rfurman24
I don't quite understand your statement above. I had a wore out Weatherby 300 and the stock magazine is 3.600. I had a Brux barrel installed chambered for the 300 WM and told the smith I wanted the bullet to just touch the lands with the 215 Berger loaded at 3.6. That way I could look for the sweet spot moving away from the lands. For some reason that did not happen and I have .200 jump.

You can have a Remington mag box fit to it and get a longer coal, it's the same as fitting a wyatts mag box to a Rem.